Gun Violence Supported In The USA

[WildCat]

cases of people with CWP (or CCW) using their weapons to attack innocent people, he is either surprisingly oblivious about facts important to his trade - or he is lying.

Will you be posting your evidence at some point in this thread?

 

[The Painter]

Freudian psychology just a convenient excuse to make this personal, isn't it?

Again with the assumptions.

Personal to who??? You? Are you under Freudian therapy? Oh speaking of Doctors. You have a greater chance of being killed by a Doctor's mistake than you do by a gun.


Hmmm, from your link;

In these other passages Freud associates retarded sexual and emotional development not with gun ownership, but with fear and loathing of weapons.

 

[Rufo]

Will you be posting your evidence at some point in this thread?

Didn't Gravy do that in the third post?

Perhaps I'm confusing terms here. I used CWP, CCW and concealed pistol license interchangably here, and if that was careless, I apologize. But surely someone who works as an editor for a magazine about guns must be concerned with the controversies surrounding gun ownership and the right to carry a concealed weapon? If such a person does not know of any single case of a person with concealed pistol license using their concealed weapon to commit a crime, he does not seem to be very concerned with the subject.

And my guess is that he is oblivious rather than lying. But who knows?

 

[Rufo]

Again with the assumptions.

Personal to who??? You? Are you under Freudian therapy? Oh speaking of Doctors. You have a greater chance of being killed by a Doctor's mistake than you do by a gun.

Personal to everyone having any opinion on guns. "Oh, you like guns, you must have an inferiority complex, ha ha." "Oh, you are irrationally afraid of guns, you must have retarded sexuality, ho ho." It's just about provoking each other.

Actually, you weren't the one to bring it up, so it was not exactly meant to criticize you - other than for misquoting Freud, of course.

Hmmm, from your link;

Yes, that is one man's interpretation of Freud's writings. The fact that someone interpreted them like that does not excuse attributing his words to Freud or even prove that Freud did, in fact, suggest it. Why not quote the writings in question instead?

 

[WildCat]

Didn't Gravy do that in the third post?

Gravy's link contains a link to a study that claims 41 Texas concealed carry permits were charged with murder or attempted murder, yet for some reason only 10 of these have details. Of those 10, one was with a shotgun on the suspects property (hard to see what a handgun pewrmit had to do with that) and most of the others are domestic disputes in which the concealed handgun permit is a moot point.

If there is evidence of concealed handgun permit holders committing murders related to the permit (i.e., traffic disputes, bar fights, or other instances between strangers) it hasn't been presented in this thread. That "study' is flawed because it doesn't exclude instances in which the weapon was available in cases where a concealed weapons permit wasn't needed - such as in the home - or in which a non-concealable weapon was used. One of those examples involved a shotgun!

 

[WildCat]

Yes, that is one man's interpretation of Freud's writings. The fact that someone interpreted them like that does not excuse attributing his words to Freud or even prove that Freud did, in fact, suggest it. Why not quote the writings in question instead?

I don't think Freud has much influence at this point in time, his work is largely discredited.

 

[Drudgewire]

I don't think Freud has much influence at this point in time, his work is largely discredited.

I don't know, I have been taking mom to the range recently.

 

[Rufo]

Gravy's link contains a link to a study that claims 41 Texas concealed carry permits were charged with murder or attempted murder, yet for some reason only 10 of these have details. Of those 10, one was with a shotgun on the suspects property (hard to see what a handgun pewrmit had to do with that) and most of the others are domestic disputes in which the concealed handgun permit is a moot point.

If there is evidence of concealed handgun permit holders committing murders related to the permit (i.e., traffic disputes, bar fights, or other instances between strangers) it hasn't been presented in this thread. That "study' is flawed because it doesn't exclude instances in which the weapon was available in cases where a concealed weapons permit wasn't needed - such as in the home - or in which a non-concealable weapon was used. One of those examples involved a shotgun!

I never suggested the study was well made, but it did contain examples of incidents similar to the one in the OP. I don't know exactly how an incident must occur for you to consider it to be "related to the permit", or how murder suddenly became the qualifier, but both the incident Workman describes in the article ("some guy with a concealed pistol license doing something like that") and I described above ("cases of people with CWP (or CCW) using their weapons to attack innocent people") are in the study.

Whether and how this will actually affect the endless debates on gun control going on on the board is another matter.

I don't think Freud has much influence at this point in time, his work is largely discredited.

Science moves forward, including psychology, mistakes are corrected and it is sometimes found that those considered pioneers were quite wrong. Freud's word is hardly inerrant truth. Misquoting him is, nevertheless, stupid and pointless.

 

[gtc]

I think only those cases where a person misuses a weapon in a situation where, but for the concealed weapon authorisation, they would not have had legal access to that weapon should be considered as evidence against the concept of authorisation to carry concealed weapons.

Evidence against the way the system is implemented and the people allowed to carry concealed wapons could also include situations where people with authorisation to carry concealed weapons have been shown to have misused weapons in other situations or are shown to be a menace to society in other ways.

A man with a CCW or CWP who kills someone in their own home with a shotgun does not say anything about whether concealed handguns should be allowed or not (unless you want to suggest all weapons should be banned).

 

[littlehulkster]

Really, the issue here isn't OMG EVIL GUNS but rather the innumerable failings of the US mental health system.

 

[The Fool]

Can someone talk to me about the need to conceal a gun? If you feel the personal need to go around tooled up why do you need to hide the gun?

 

[paximperium]

Can someone talk to me about the need to conceal a gun? If you feel the personal need to go around tooled up why do you need to hide the gun?

Because without a concealment license, you have to keep your gun separate from your ammo, usually in a box or briefcase. People who carry for "self-defense" usually need a concealed weapon license.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Can someone talk to me about the need to conceal a gun? If you feel the personal need to go around tooled up why do you need to hide the gun?

In some states (like Texas) if you want to carry, you need a license. If anyone even sees your firearm, you lose your license. The only time you're allowed to draw or display it is to fire it.

In Indiana, open carry isn't prohibited, but you still need the carry license for it. The police tell you when you get the license, unequivocally, that if anyone complains about your open carrying, they will respond as they would with any other, "man with a gun," complaint. As a result, most licensed carriers carry concealed because they don't what to spend their lunch break in the back of a police cruiser while the police check their licenses and then explain that the person in the back of the cruiser was within his rights to carry a firearm to whoever it was that made the original call. There are a few open-carriers, but they've mostly matriculated in the, "I'm within my rights and rubbing your face in it," school of thought.

Utah, I believe, has specific laws allowing open carry, but you still need a license to carry.

On a more practical level, open carry places you high on the hit list if someone decides to jackassulate. If you carry concealed, you don't look so much like an easy piece of work to get a new firearm.

Oh - and - as far as I can tell, the state of Indiana, with somewhat over 100,000 concealed carry licenses issued, has had less than 1000 revoked, and only one licensee convicted of a gun crime. Licensees have a lower rate of commission of other criminal acts than the general populace, as well, which has prompted Indiana to pass a law allowing lifetime concealed carry licenses.

 

[JoeEllison]

Can someone talk to me about the need to conceal a gun? If you feel the personal need to go around tooled up why do you need to hide the gun?

My understanding is that most states' laws make it difficult to carry in general, so the concealed carry permit is more about convenience of carry, versus the actual concealment.

 

[The Painter]

Can someone talk to me about the need to conceal a gun?

CFLarsen on a plane?

 

[The Fool]

I would have thought that open carry was more sensible? A lot of people tell me that people carry guns to deter assailants....when they pull out and wave a gun the person has second thoughts. Wouldn't open carry have this effect in many cases without having to brandish the gun? It would also have the effect of making the general public more at ease when they can see that citizens around them are carrying guns.

My other theory involves compulsory low slung holsters, spurs and Stetson hats for gun carriers.

 

[Lonewulf]

The real fear of a concealed carry is in who might be carrying and who might not be. If 50% of people in a room were concealed carry, that's a 1 in 2 chance that whoever you're messing with has a firearm on their person. When you don't know who's concealing a firearm, you find yourself more unwilling to harass most of the people you run into, since you just don't know who has a firearm and who doesn't. It's not difficult to corner a person who you know doesn't have a firearm into being alone. And those who stick up stickers on their house saying how they're proud to not have a gun, are just begging for a burglar.

Good job making out gun advocates into "cowboys", though. The constant mockery of people you disagree with is hilarious.

Are all gun control extremists insulting arrogant pricks, or is it just me? You're not better than me because your opinion is different. Get over it, and get over yourself.

This goes to the Original Poster as well.

 

[gtc]

The Fool might be an extremist, an insulting man and an arrogant prick but not because he was making a joke about cowboys. That was just a joke.

Maybe we need a warning label for posts written by Australians:

Warning may contain Australian humour and references to Vegemite

 

[Professor Yaffle]

A slight tangent, but I don't know if people are aware that people with mental illness are more often victims of violence than perpetrators of it.

 

[Drudgewire]

Can someone talk to me about the need to conceal a gun? If you feel the personal need to go around tooled up why do you need to hide the gun?

We're not law enforcement. My gun isn't to say "don't mess with me," it's to be pulled out if my life is ever in immediate danger. Otherwise, you'll never know I have one, because I'm not looking to impress anyone or make them nervous.

You know what's even more stupid than open carry (and believe me, that's a short list)?

"Hay guys I sure wish I was a cop but I'm not so go ahead and shoot me first thanks."