Global warming discussion III

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Originally Posted by Arnold Martin View Post
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I am not a climate scientist but I have followed all the news releases for the past 30 years or so , as best I can
The Faux news version instead of following the science - that's fairly obvious from your misinformed view.

I started out having great concern if our planet should overheat
well that's kinda odd - I've been following the science for 50 years and even the climate scientists were not all that alarmed early on....it was a concern.

I find I have great joy when science shows the planet may indeed not be overheating
What climate science would that be? Moving in a single century to a climate regime not seen in 3 million years + would seem to be a serious risk and the consequences unfold even now very early on in the change curve. Your use of "overheating" is polemic trolling.
The cost of doing nothing to ameliorate the risk of rapid climate change far outweighs the inevitable move to carbon neutral - even Exxon finally admits the risks are serious.

I am curious why some folks are furious when the planet does not appear to be overheating

I would like to know why that makes some folks furious

thank you

You are in a science forum. Your hillbilly "folksy" language is puerile and fools no one.
Every informed person and certainly the vast majority of climate scientists are alarmed by the continued and even accelerating rate of change.
That you appear to swallow the codswallop that there is a pause in AGW just shows how gullible you are.....or would have us beleive you are......

Every single climate scientist would be thrilled to find a negative feedback in operation that would ameliorate the risk.....there is none of significance.
The atmosphere and oceans continue to warm at a dismaying rate.
We are on track for the highest change scenario by 2100 at the current rate of CO2 emissions.

140921145005-large.jpg


Where you get the idea that there is no risk of serious consequences from "science" is astonishingly deluded. The only "fury" is at the kind of self serving delusion you exhibit. You and others employed by the fossil fuel industry are either witting or unwitting shills for what at this point has become a right wing political delusion that even most of the responsible fossil fuel companies disown.

Oil sands pollution: Why industry wants the carbon tax ...
business.financialpost.com/.../why-the-oil-sands-industry-wants-the-carb...
Feb 1, 2013 -

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has vilified political opponents who support a tax on carbon-dioxide emissions. The oil sands industry, Canada’s fastest growing CO2 polluter, says he’s out of step. ..
http://business.financialpost.com/2...x-harper-hates/?__federated=1&__lsa=2aa9-6628

What informed people are furious about is disinformation campaigns, and pretend grave concern from people like you who are nothing but fossil fuel shills.
Even Exxon admits the serious risk of climate change....you deny it - say it's not even happening now.
Who is wrong?

does this look like AGW is not continuing to accelerate?

heat_content2000m.png


you are very much playing the frog in the pot.....pretending it's not getting warmer.

Since 1901, the average surface temperature across the contiguous 48 states has risen at an average rate of 0.14°F per decade (1.4°F per century) (see Figure 1). Average temperatures have risen more quickly since the late 1970s (0.31 to 0.48°F per decade). Seven of the top 10 warmest years on record for the contiguous 48 states have occurred since 1998, and 2012 was the warmest year on record.
Worldwide, 2001-2010 was the warmest decade on record since thermometer-based observations began. Global average surface temperature has risen at an average rate of 0.15°F per decade since 1901 (see Figure 2), similar to the rate of warming within the contiguous 48 states. Since the late 1970s, however, the United States has warmed faster than the global rate.

and month after month in 2014 we set all time records for global temperatures since records began and Australia experienced it's hottest year. Canadian winter temperatures have risen an astonishing 3.3 C in just 60 years.

Species from the tropics are moving into waters they've never been recorded in as the oceans warm.

To be in denial of this is clinical delusion. Get over it - move on to what to do about it which is a very difficult set of policies facing individuals and organizations.
The unfolding consequences, planning for the already established change that will unfold and reducing the change in the future by reducing carbon fuel use all represent difficult challenges....even for nations such as Sweden who are well along to a carbon neutral industrial society.

At this point, your denial view "What me worry" ....well hill billy does come to mind. Dumb hick in less polite terms. :rolleyes:

btw

Does CO2 trap IR? it all follows from the physics.
 
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I am not a climate scientist but I have followed all the news releases for the past 30 years or so , as best I can

I started out having great concern if our planet should overheat

I find I have great joy when science shows the planet may indeed not be overheating

I am curious why some folks are furious when the planet does not appear to be overheating

I would like to know why that makes some folks furious

thank you

Arnold, it's the difference between being happy that you got the answer that you wished for and being happy that you got the answer that is true.
 
You say that the conclusion is obvious.
Yes, and I am specific about what I say. The official records for Chicago make it obvious that their claim is bogus. They either made up something, or repeated what somebody else made up.

The records were linked to in the original post which pointed this out.

Besides, why is one city so important ? This thread is about global warming, not Chicago warming.
It was brought up as an example to justify why the in toto changes to global records always produce drastic warming. The past is cooled, and the recent records raised. By showing how their example is wrong, it shows skepticism about the claim in general. If something with a wealth of good data, long term data, is so wrongly adjusted, one should be skeptical about all the other adjustments.

I for one would be delighted if it was shown that the planet is not overheating.
You have been shown, multiple times. I doesn't seem to matter. You even reject the theoretical nature of global warming, and can't grasp the implications of the boreal winter trend.

Shucks, the global warming theory is denied, the boreal winter trend is denied, and the scientific fact that models do not predict cooling for boreal winters is denied. How can any scientific fact matter?

it would be great news if it turned out that our worries were wrong.
Currently that is exactly what the data shows. There has been no drastic global warming, as theory/models predicted.

but the evidence clearly shows that the planet is warming,
Then show it, like macdoc tries to do. That is the crux of the debate, you don't win by just saying something.

that we are the main cause and that it will cause huge problems we will have a lot of problems dealing with.
Again, the evidence does not support that claim. It doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. But currently the changing climate does not match greenhouse theory warming.

It's not even in the ballpark.

AGW theory predicts warming for boreal winters.

source IPCC
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There is a theory, and the science and models is based on the theory.

source IPCC, Wigley et al. 1996. A search for human influences on the thermal structure of the atmosphere. Nature, 382, 39-46,

The carbon dioxide theory of Gilbert Plass
source

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Winter in the NH should warm fastest.

source NCDC global data

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Globally, last February was no warmer than February 1981

source RSS satellite data

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In the what to do about it category

Reasons to be optimistic about NY climate summit

24 September 2014

VETERAN climate negotiators arriving at this week's talks in New York faced an uphill struggle. There has been little real progress since the failure of the 2009 talks in Copenhagen, and the Global Carbon Project's latest report suggested global emissions are consistent with the worst of four scenarios – threatening up to 5 °C of warming by 2100.
Those on the People's Climate March in New York, and around the world, were both determined and sceptical. "You have to keep up hope, but I don't think things will change," said one. Their banners testified to the issue's complexity: no-nukes signs next to calls for zero-carbon power, "grandparents for climate action" next to signs deploring pension funds' fossil-fuel investments.

Did the summit deliver? We won't really know unless and until a new climate accord is signed in Paris next year. But New York has already improved on Copenhagen by persuading countries to do their climate homework, and in inviting big investors, who duly pledged to decarbonise $100 billion of investments. Both were significant advances.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...tic-about-ny-climate-summit.html#.VCRPFEt1aGM

we like big numbers like that....coal mining and burning a sunset industry indeed.
 
Canadian winter temperatures have risen an astonishing 3.3 C in just 60 years.
No, it has not. Parts have warmed some, other parts have cooled. The GISS data clearly shows this.

So does the actual temperature records from the airfields.

The actual data, even when modified, shows no drastic warming.

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Yes, and I am specific about what I say. The official records for Chicago make it obvious that their claim is bogus. They either made up something, or repeated what somebody else made up.

The reccords were linked to in the original post which pointed this out.

It was brought up as an example to justify why the in toto changes to global records always produce drastic warming. The past is cooled, and the recent records raised. By showing how their example is wrong, it shows skepticism about the claim in general. If something with a wealth of good data, long term data, is so wrongly adjusted, one should be skeptical about all the other adjustments.

You have been shown, multiple times. I doesn't seem to matter. You even reject the theoretical nature of global warming, and can't grasp the implications of the boreal winter trend.

Shucks, the global warming theory is denied, the boreal winter trend is denied, and the scientific fact that models do not predict cooling for boreal winters is denied. How can any scientific fact matter?

Currently that is exactly what the data shows. There has been no drastic global warming, as theory/models predicted.

Then show it, like macdoc tries to do. That is the crux of the debate, you don't win by just saying something.

Again, the evidence does not support that claim. It doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. But currently the changing climate does not match greenhouse theory warming.

It's not even in the ballpark.

AGW theory predicts warming for boreal winters.

source IPCC
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31784&d=1411663562[/qimg]

There is a theory, and the science and models is based on the theory.

source IPCC, Wigley et al. 1996. A search for human influences on the thermal structure of the atmosphere. Nature, 382, 39-46,

source

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31785&d=1411663562[/qimg]

Winter in the NH should warm fastest.

source NCDC global data

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31782&d=1411662970[/qimg]

Globally, last February was no warmer than February 1981

source RSS satellite data

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31783&d=1411662970[/qimg]

LOL you are such a clown.

even deniers Christy and Spencer say the RSS data is off. and their UAH data is in better agreement with land based measurements than the RSS data.

But that you keep cherrypicking the RSS data is very telling. you sure can fool people on WUWT and YT with that, but not here.
Come back when you have science to offer.
lack of winter warming does not mean AGW is wrong in general, we know for a fact that AGW is happening. only deniers doubt that.
go troll someone else. Your trolling is boring.
 
Yes, and I am specific about what I say. The official records for Chicago make it obvious that their claim is bogus. They either made up something, or repeated what somebody else made up.

Again we are talking about GLOBAL warming. I asked you why you think you are correct and they are not; you said the conclusion is obvious. How did all the experts miss all this if it's so obvious ? It's not only a serious question, but a crucial one for your argument.
 
No, it has not. Parts have warmed some, other parts have cooled. The GISS data clearly shows this.

So does the actual temperature records from the airfields.

The actual data, even when modified, shows no drastic warming.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31786&stc=1&d=1411665810[/qimg]

LOL Alaska is Canada now?
 
Then show it, like macdoc tries to do.

Tries R-J ????

You don't understand it when we do......you have not a single clue about AGW, statistical analysis or local transients. You seriously do not have a clue about why data on moved stations is homogenized with surrounding stations.

You harp on and on things that are patently wrong.... move on to the conspiracy section where your nonsense belongs....I do hope others are reporting you....I see a number of your posts got dumped in AAH....so some small progress.

Or start your own thread and rant all you want....I'm sure it will be popular.:rolleyes:

There has been no drastic global warming,
perhaps you could show us where drastic global warming was mentioned in the scientific literature.

Alaska 586,412 sq miles
Canada 3,855,103 sq. mi
Russia 6,592,800 sq mi)

If it's getting colder in Alaska how come the Iditerod is in such trouble.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/04/3357501/warm-winter-iditarod-minefield-snow/

Hardly indicative of a colder winter
climatereanalyzer030414-638x663.jpg


Those cooler land temps are as explained numerous times a result of a MUCH warmer Arctic, with MUCH less ice cover.
 
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You have been shown, multiple times.
I have been shown nonsense about a non-existent theory, wilfully cherry picked and misrepresented data and unsupported slander multiple times, all of which have been patiently debunked multiple times. You just ignore it all and repeat the same silly rubbish over and over again.
 
and their UAH data is in better agreement with land based measurements than the RSS data.

UAH data

Feb 1981.08
0.057
Feb 2011.08
-0.003

After 30 years of global warming, the 2011 GLOBAL February land temperatures are lower. Certainly "natural variability" will be the handwaving, and it won't matter at all.

So natural variability can, after 30 years of warming, cause the entire world to be over half a degree C colder.

UAH shows Land only Feb 2011 and 2012 were colder than 1981, which again, will mean nothing. Except of course it does mean something.
http://woodfortrees.org/plot/uah-land/from:1980.08/every:12

The ocean temps continue to climb (Feb)
http://woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3gl/from:1980.08/every:12

So yet another obvious problem for the theory. Land isn't rising faster than the oceans, which the theory predicts must happen, if it's greenhouse forced warming.
 
LOL Alaska is Canada now?

We already did Canada.

Perhaps you would care to explain why Canadian winters are 3.3 C warmer over 60 years...
You don't understand how science works.

Just saying something is meaningless.

What you want to do is use evidence. Like when I say the records are adjusted, and the raw data doesn't show the drastic warming we hear about all the time.

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Or how the airport records show a different story than the Berkeley BEST project, or the NCDC shows us.

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You see how effective that is?

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After you show the evidence, then you show how and why the readings are changed.

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Then you might convince somebody.


But just unsupported claims are meaningless.

lol!
 
We already did Canada.

You don't understand how science works.

Just saying something is meaningless.

What you want to do is use evidence. Like when I say the records are adjusted, and the raw data doesn't show the drastic warming we hear about all the time.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31775&stc=1&d=1411597500[/qimg]

Or how the airport records show a different story than the Berkeley BEST project, or the NCDC shows us.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31776&stc=1&d=1411597500[/qimg]

You see how effective that is?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31777&stc=1&d=1411597500[/qimg]

After you show the evidence, then you show how and why the readings are changed.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31778&stc=1&d=1411597500[/qimg]

Then you might convince somebody.


But just unsupported claims are meaningless. lol!

Oh yes that is very funny r-j. Do you think anyone is foolish to fall for your nonsense. R-j who fill the thread with insults, self praise and conspiracy theories. What did the authors of the article which you built a conspiracy theory around say when you contacted them about it?
 
I have been shown nonsense about a non-existent theory, wilfully cherry picked and misrepresented data and unsupported slander multiple times, all of which have been patiently debunked multiple times. You just ignore it all and repeat the same silly rubbish over and over again.

And every post I have seen from you debunking his nonsense has been patient and gracious. His insulting posts OTOH replying to you were moved to AAH.
 
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Again we are talking about GLOBAL warming. I asked you why you think you are correct and they are not; you said the conclusion is obvious. How did all the experts miss all this if it's so obvious ? It's not only a serious question, but a crucial one for your argument.

R-j ?
 
Any one who can read the actual results (such as the ones you are citing) sees that the theory that are talking about is not called "Theory of Global Warming".

An actual 2014 paper, by real scientists, about climate, that says, literally, "the Global Warming Theory".

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source of image

r-j: Please cite the source you used to check the temperature records of the 1930's and 1940's for the weather station mentioned in the RealClimate article.

I used the official records from the NWS Chicago.

To review. Two actively publishing climate scientists who work with this very data have indicated the presence of this weather station.
No, that isn't what they said at all.

You called them liars.
Of course I didn't.

Now you want us to go though the raw data to prove to you they are not?
Of course I never said that either. I said anyone can check for themselves.
Sorry, no. It’s your assertion they are lying and it's up to you to prove.
Wrong, you said that, not me.

If somebody make an outrageous claim, they have to show evidence to support it. Nobody has to prove a negative. Obviously the record highs for Chicago show nothing even close to 113, ever.

You simply type into Google "Chicago record high temperatures" and the very first link is to the official records.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=chi_temperature_records

That alone proves the Berkeley Yahoos to be full of it. But weeks later, we still see people here acting like nobody will tell them where the records are, and of course the claim the NWS must be a bunch of liars.
 
Yes, and I am specific about what I say. The official records for Chicago make it obvious that their claim is bogus. They either made up something, or repeated what somebody else made up.

The records were linked to in the original post which pointed this out.

No r-j they weren't. You linked to a wunderground blog post. When are you going to answer Reality Check's questions. If you had one tenth of the intelligence you keep telling us then that should be a doddle.
Also you must have checked with the authors of the real climate article before you started telling everyone they were lying. What response did you get?
 
If somebody make an outrageous claim, they have to show evidence to support it. Nobody has to prove a negative. Obviously the record highs for Chicago show nothing even close to 113, ever.

You are the one making extraordinary claims r-j. Answer Reality Check's questions. Also you must have known that the decent thing to do was to contact the climate scientists about the real climate article before yu accused them of lying. What was their reply?
 
Your refusal to address my question, r-j, leads me to believe that you cannot come up with any possibility other than all climate scientists somehow being dishonest/corrupt/lying. Why else would they all be wrong ?

Come on, now.
 
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