Gillard labels Abbott a misogynist

[Hallo Alfie]

[ambivalent shrug mode]

Their claims, they can back them up..... Or not, I imagine, because they can't.​

Perhaps you can help? Or not. Either way.​

[/ambivalent shrug mode]

 

[Morrigan]

I'm reading some more choice quotes from that Abbott guy here:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott

Not only is he a sexist bigot with insanely outdated views, but he's also an anti-science AGW denier and a racist. Charming!

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Really? So you now agree that Gillard calling out Abbott on his hypocrisy is not inherently a defense of Slipper? Because that is what I am saying.

No, what I am saying is that Gillard was using an attack on Abbott as a defense for Slipper - it is not, and it was illegitimate and unsupportable.

Are you now saying that the quotes Gillard attributed to Abbott are false and made up? If so, why isn't Abbott saying, "hey, Gillard, you liar, I never said those things"?

Can you show me where I said that?

I have simply asked for evidence of misogyny. Have you got some? If so, where is it, in what context was it used and why is it misogynistic?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

PRIME Minister Julia Gillard's scathing speech against sexism won unlikely backing from controversial former heavyweight boxing champion Mike Tyson, who said history was on her side.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...corner-on-sexism/story-fn59niix-1226495585971

ROTFFL

(catches breath) I guess he would know. She must be delighted to have him in her corner.

 

[Akhenaten]

I'm reading some more choice quotes from that Abbott guy here:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott

Not only is he a sexist bigot with insanely outdated views, but he's also an anti-science AGW denier and a racist. Charming!

I imagine that the PM will consider him to be one of her greatest assets in the run-up to the next election.

 

[lionking]

Sigh.. this is getting tedious. But I can be a broken record if I have to.

"Which quotes exactly and why do they make him (and them) misogynistic? Some context would be good too."

This might help those who struggle with English...

What exactly was his quote?
Was he asked a question or discussing a broader issue? In what context was it given?
Why do his comments qualify as misogynistic?

To your question LK: You are stating that anyone who is pro life is a misogynist (you used the word contempt - no one else has). Why is pro life misogynistic in your opinion?

DID YOU READ THE LINK???

It was his whole speech. Your dodges are clear to everyone, as are your strawmen. I didn't say pro lifers are misogynists (although I'm certain many are) I was saying that anyone saying abortion is the easy way out displays contempt for the woman who made that agonising decision.

Contempt=hatred=misogyny. Clear?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

It was his whole speech. Your dodges are clear to everyone,

Actually it is you who is doing the dodging.

I didn't say pro lifers are misogynists (although I'm certain many are) I was saying that anyone saying abortion is the easy way out displays contempt for the woman who made that agonising decision.

And you may be right, but the discussion is whether Abbott is a misogynist.

Contempt=hatred=misogyny. Clear?

Nope. I might have contempt for this statement of yours but that does not equate to hatred for you, now does it?

So...
"Which quotes exactly and why do they make him (and them) misogynistic? Some context would be good too."

 

[Magenta]

Her claims are in there - you get to support them (or not) with evidence. So far no one has done so (nor even attempted). Over to you.

You made the claim of "outright lies" which I believe in the normal course of things puts the onus on you to justify. I only asked you to identify which were lies, and you won't do that?

I imagine that the PM will consider him to be one of her greatest assets in the run-up to the next election.

Agreed. It would help if the media gave him a bit more of the Leigh Sales treatment!

 

[Hallo Alfie]

You made the claim of "outright lies" which I believe in the normal course of things puts the onus on you to justify. I only asked you to identify which were lies, and you won't do that?

The accusation is he is a misogynist, no?
The OP says "Gillard labels Abbott a misogynist". Correct?
All the cheering and hand clapping strongly suggests you and others support and endorse this claim (in fact many have said so very clearly).

Now..
The "outright lies" in her speech relate to the claim he is misogynistic and his comments support same (not that things were not said - I see now the confusion, we were at cross purposes slightly) and that they are in themselves misogynistic - they are not (afaict) and the accusation is unsupportable.

So
Can we please have the exact statements of Abbotts (in context) tthat damn him and the reasons why that proves him misogynistic - which is after all the claim that needs to be supported. If that can't be done, the accusation is a lie (and she does have form you know)

 

[Krikkiter]

I'm reading some more choice quotes from that Abbott guy here:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott

Not only is he a sexist bigot with insanely outdated views, but he's also an anti-science AGW denier and a racist. Charming!

He's also good mates with George Pell: “…one of the greatest churchmen that Australia has seen”

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/the-mysterious-pell/

 

[Morrigan]

No, what I am saying is that Gillard was using an attack on Abbott as a defense for Slipper - it is not, and it was illegitimate and unsupportable.

Then I repeat: where person A = Abbott and person B = Slipper; criticizing person A's hypocrisy does not suggest a defense of person B's behaviour. It's a non-sequitur.

Can you show me where I said that?

Well, if you do think the Abbott quotes Gillard used in her speech are not fake, then you know full well which quotes we think are misogynistic and sexist. You know, the ones about women not being suited for command and leadership, about how Gillard should "make an honest woman of herself" (by marrying), quips about ironing, and so on. The only way one could possibly claim that that Abbott is not sexist or misogynistic, is if the quotes are untrue and fabricated and he never said them in the first place.

Otherwise, anyone who says that women are inherently less suited to leadership than men, anyone who thinks it's a good thing that there are few women leaders, anyone who says women must be married to be "honest", is very clearly sexist misogynistic.

I have simply asked for evidence of misogyny. Have you got some? If so, where is it, in what context was it used and why is it misogynistic?

A better question would be: how are those Abbott quotes not misogynistic?

 

[a_unique_person]

I'm reading some more choice quotes from that Abbott guy here:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott

Not only is he a sexist bigot with insanely outdated views, but he's also an anti-science AGW denier and a racist. Charming!

I think I would say to my daughters if they were to ask me this question... it [their virginity] is the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don't give it to someone lightly, that's what I would say.

That's right, the most valuable thing about a women is her hymen. The brains, personality, culture, career, education, etc, they don't count nearly as much.

 

[lionking]

That's right, the most valuable thing about a women is her hymen. The brains, personality, culture, career, education, etc, they don't count nearly as much.

I think Labor should release an Abbott "Quote of the Week" campaign. He will, of course, deny that he really meant them. That will make him, what? A liar?

Oh, wait. He has a response to such a charge:

I know politicians are going to be judged on everything they say but sometimes in the heat of discussion you go a little bit further than you would if it was an absolutely calm, considered, prepared, scripted remark. The statements that need to be taken absolutely as gospel truth are those carefully prepared scripted remarks.

Hoist on his own petard. What a hypocrit Abbott is.

 

[Krikkiter]

I think Labor should release an Abbott "Quote of the Week" campaign. He will, of course, deny that he really meant them. That will make him, what? A liar?

Oh, wait. He has a response to such a charge:



Hoist on his own petard. What a hypocrit Abbott is.

They would be those off-the-cuff, non-scripted remarks made in the heat of the moment.

 

[lionking]

They would be those off-the-cuff, non-scripted remarks made in the heat of the moment.

Yup. Non-core comments so to speak.

Seriously, you could line up Abbott's quotable quotes against Gillard's, and the winner would be crystal clear.

 

[lionking]

Another classic:

It seems that, notwithstanding the dramatic increases in manmade CO2 emissions over the last decade, the world's warming has stopped.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Then I repeat: where person A = Abbott and person B = Slipper; criticizing person A's hypocrisy does not suggest a defense of person B's behaviour.

I would agree if that was the whole story; but it is not.
What was being discussed when Gillard made the speech? Whether to oust Slipper or not. Correct?
Rather than address the issue, she used it as an opportunity to smash Abbott around the ears. She used her attack on Abbott as defensive measure for Slipper (strategic defense would perhaps be a better term).

Well, if you do think the Abbott quotes Gillard used in her speech are not fake, then you know full well which quotes we think are misogynistic and sexist. You know, the ones about women not being suited for command and leadership, about how Gillard should "make an honest woman of herself" (by marrying), quips about ironing, and so on. The only way one could possibly claim that that Abbott is not sexist or misogynistic, is if the quotes are untrue and fabricated and he never said them in the first place.

Otherwise, anyone who says that women are inherently less suited to leadership than men, anyone who thinks it's a good thing that there are few women leaders, anyone who says women must be married to be "honest", is very clearly sexist misogynistic.

So. In what context were these quotes made? Are they accurate, what were the precise words used? And in what way does that prove he is misogynistic?

The reluctance of one and all here to address the actual argument is very telling. It suggests to me that in context his comments are reasonable or, you guys are just very lazy. If there is another, I can't think of it.

 

[lionking]

So. In what context were these quotes made? Are they accurate, what were the precise words used? And in what way does that prove he is misogynistic?

If you claim the quotes are not accurate, the onus is on you. I have already provided the entire speech when he made the disgusting "abortion is the easy way out" comment. The others are trivally easy to look up, but you can do the work.

Abbott is a disgraceful bigot, but I'm enjoying the apologistics.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Evidence please. Her speech is evidence of her speech. Her words are not evidence of his words, nor the context in which they were made. Assuming they are accurate, show us where and when - we will then be able to see the context, and you will be able to make the misogynistic link.

Given the constant sidestepping, all one can assume is that the claims of misogynist do not stand up to scrutiny.

Back to you for some more dodging.

 

[lionking]

Please show how the statement "abortion is the easy way out" is not misogynistic? The link is there, with all the context in the world. Defend this statement.