Getaway driver arrested for murder.

LTC8K6 said:
It seems very unlikely to be their first day of robbing their neighbors, despite the claims of relatives about how good they were and that they shouldn't have been shot, etc.
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Rodriguez has stated they pulled other invasions and car jackings.
http://www.insideedition.com/headli...me-invasion-case-has-a-lot-of-regrets-defends

She says she and the three teens committed several carjackings and home invasions together.
"I guess we kind of got used to not getting caught. We made bad choices," she said.
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LTC8K6 said:
You can have just about whatever view you want, as can everyone else. You can't have your own facts, though.

It seems very unlikely to be their first day of robbing their neighbors, despite the claims of relatives about how good they were and that they shouldn't have been shot, etc.
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I always have a little chuckle to myself when eyeing the local paper and finding that just about every little scumbag kid who rapes, stabs, mugs or maims someone, suddenly becomes a "little angel who wouldn't hurt a fly" when their family and friends are giving an interview about either their death or their deserved incarceration.

Rapes a girl and deals drugs to youths: "He was a gentle soul," says granddad.
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
I always have a little chuckle to myself when eyeing the local paper and finding that just about every little scumbag kid who rapes, stabs, mugs or maims someone, suddenly becomes a "little angel who wouldn't hurt a fly" when their family and friends are giving an interview about either their death or their deserved incarceration.

Rapes a girl and deals drugs to youths: "He was a gentle soul," says granddad.
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Yes, we always have the claims and the cute pics of the "child"...

http://ktul.com/news/local/family-m...-killed-in-wagoner-county-break-in-speaks-out

I suppose once in a great while the claims are basically true, and this was the first time...
 
LTC8K6 said:
Yes, we always have the claims and the cute pics of the "child"...

http://ktul.com/news/local/family-m...-killed-in-wagoner-county-break-in-speaks-out

I suppose once in a great while the claims are basically true, and this was the first time...
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It's hard not to feel remorse for the family, at times, but then again, we have to think of the family who owned the home and were likely frightened at the prospect of being burgled and having their lives potentially threatened by people whom they couldn't be certain didn't intend serious harm or even worse.

That's the hell of it all. Some good kid may stray down a wrong path, literally, but the person under threat doesn't know, nor care about this, and they shouldn't care, imho.
 
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Gilbert Syndrome said:
It's hard not to feel remorse for the family, at times, but then again, we have to think of the family who owned the home and were likely frightened at the prospect of being burgled and having their lives potentially threatened by people whom they couldn't be certain didn't intend serious harm or even worse.

That's the hell of it all. Some good kid may stray down a wrong path, literally, but the person under threat doesn't know, nor care about this, and they shouldn't care, imho.
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When you're in a crew that "got used to not getting caught," you kinda lose the whole innocent first-timer angle. As a matter of fact, just being in a burglary/carjacking crew probably kills that.

"Taking people's stuff? Pulling them out of their cars? ****, I'm in."
 
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LTC8K6 said:
You can have just about whatever view you want, as can everyone else. You can't have your own facts, though.

It seems very unlikely to be their first day of robbing their neighbors, despite the claims of relatives about how good they were and that they shouldn't have been shot, etc.
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Not that any of this is relevant to whether self defense was warranted. The shooter was in no position to evaluate the moral character of the burglars. The same law and moral reasoning apply whether they were seasoned bad guys or first timers.

In fact, he may not have seen the weapons before he shot. The legal defense[1] has to do with reasonable belief that the situation posed great threat to him. I think that's an okay moral standard, too.

[1] probably not technically a legal defense, but let me speak loosely. The term "great threat" is also probably not the relevant standard, but close enough for our sake, I hope.
 
Resume said:
When you're in a crew that "got used to not getting caught," you kinda lose the whole innocent first-timer angle. As a matter of fact, just being in a burglary/carjacking crew probably kills that.

"Taking people's stuff? Pulling them out of their cars? ****, I'm in."
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Yeah, I generally have no remorse for such people and am never concerned or saddened by their loss. I've far more people to be concerned about than some little thief who spends his time causing harm and damage. As I've said on this forum at various points, I don't have sympathy for people who set out to cause offense or harm, and I actually enjoy seeing them get their comeuppance.
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
Yeah, I generally have no remorse for such people and am never concerned or saddened by their loss. I've far more people to be concerned about than some little thief who spends his time causing harm and damage. As I've said on this forum at various points, I don't have sympathy for people who set out to cause offense or harm, and I actually enjoy seeing them get their comeuppance.
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In this instance, these four deliberately put themselves in harm's way again, with full knowledge of the possible consequences. According to one of the crew, they had gotten away with it before; not this time however. It's a shame, but the entire disaster rests on their shoulders. Hopefully, other teenage idiots with too much time on their hands will learn from this.
 
marplots said:
That doesn't make sense to me at all. It implies that, when I am fearful for my life, there is only one course of action open to me when in practice there may be several. One course of action to mitigate the threat might be to scare the aggressor by demonstrating I have a gun. Another might be to run away. But no one suggests that running away, instead of shooting, means I couldn't have been afraid for my life.

You'd think the law would be open to having more options available, not fewer.
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Not arguing that, just noting. In Florida, unconcealing the gun/weapon is a violation and can get you arrested and charged, firing a warning shot can get you a worse charge but if you can show you tried to hit the assaulter but missed, you are ok and if you hit the assaulter you may be ok - definitely if they are killed but possibly in trouble if you admit shooting to wound. You are free to not believe this, but that does not change how the law works at least in Florida.
 
And if any clarification is necessary, the law assumes your only options are you fear for your life and must shoot to kill as a sign of that OR you were not fearful for your life and had no reason to pull or fire the weapon. (if a gun, of course). I do some disagree, but not my call and I have no desire to be harmed/killed or jailed so I shoot to kill double tap if forced into such a situation.
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
I always have a little chuckle to myself when eyeing the local paper and finding that just about every little scumbag kid who rapes, stabs, mugs or maims someone, suddenly becomes a "little angel who wouldn't hurt a fly" when their family and friends are giving an interview about either their death or their deserved incarceration.

Rapes a girl and deals drugs to youths: "He was a gentle soul," says granddad.
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I agree the dead get over-eulogised. Suddenly they become the 'wonderful ray of sunshine who everybody loved' as soon as they croak.

However, IMV a 16-year is allowed some slack. They get drunk, do drugs, vandalise, burgle, spray graffiti...and then they grow up and lead perfectly respectable lives.
 
Vixen said:
I stand 100% behind everything I say.
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Does this include all the nasty things you have said about other posters?


Vixen said:
Until the full details come out in court I stand by my view it is a great shame these three teens were shot dead for their stupidity. R.I.P.

They have family (Mom and Dad and siblings) and friends and I am inclined to believe they were tearaways rather than hardened criminals.

Do you believe I should not be allowed to have that view and that I should be forced to say,'Good riddance creeps!'?
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You of course have every right to believe and state what you wish about the these criminals. We also have the right to express our belief that almost everything you have said is wrong.

However, IMV a 16-year is allowed some slack. They get drunk, do drugs, vandalise, burgle, spray graffiti...and then they grow up and lead perfectly respectable lives.
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Many of them do. Many of them die doings these things and are 100 percent responsible for their own death. Many of them go on to become hardened criminals. There is also no reason for me not to believe that this home invasion could have ended with two dead residents.
 
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Vixen said:
However, IMV a 16-year is allowed some slack. They get drunk, do drugs, vandalise, burgle, spray graffiti...and then they grow up and lead perfectly respectable lives.
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"Boys will be boys" is a pretty piss-poor justification for vandalism, burglary, robbery, rape, and assault.

And "growing up and leading respectable lives" isn't exactly commonplace for such types, as the frequency of domestic violence, animal cruelty, rape, "gay bashing" and various other assaults on sexual minorities, and so on committed by "respectable" adults would indicate.
 
luchog said:
"Boys will be boys" is a pretty piss-poor justification for vandalism, burglary, robbery, rape, and assault.
And "growing up and leading respectable lives" isn't exactly commonplace for such types, as the frequency of domestic violence, animal cruelty, rape, "gay bashing" and various other assaults on sexual minorities, and so on committed by "respectable" adults would indicate.
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And no one tried to make that particular case - you just made it up.
 
jeffas69 said:
Does this include all the nasty things you have said about other posters?



You of course have every right to believe and state what you wish about the these criminals. We also have the right to express our belief that almost everything you have said is wrong.



Many of them do. Many of them die doings these things and are 100 percent responsible for their own death. Many of them go on to become hardened criminals. There is also no reason for me not to believe that this home invasion could have ended with two dead residents.
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Do give us an example.
 
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