Georgia has new gun law.

[casebro]

[Q] Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Can you show me any studies that show how that happened in other areas that loosened gun laws? Please?

eta- Pretty please?
http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-d...-ground-2014-2

Quote:
Gun deaths in Florida started out high in the 1990s (when crime was higher everywhere in America) and gradually declined throughout the decade and into the 2000s. Then, in 2005, when the stand your ground law was enacted, murders involving firearms spiked by more than 200 in two years.
But let's let this one play out and see how it goes. All we have to do is avoid Georgia for the next ten years and we'll be fine. [Q/]

but that was SYG.

But lately (last couple decades) something like 35 states have relaxed their gun laws. There out to bundles of examples of increased violence. Or maybe stable rates while the rest of the countries rates were dropping?

Of by the way, since Three Strikes became common. we have tripled the number of inmates. And the number of executions actually has increased too. And the violent crime rates have dropped. Seems that 90% of murderers are repeat felons, and likewise 90% of murder victims are too. Prevent violence, put felons in jail.

Which would also extend their own lives, what with being safe in jail, not out on the streets to get murdered.

Hmm, I wonder how much of our recent improvements in our life expectancy overall is from keeping gang bangers in jail?

 

[theprestige]

I predict a rise in gun violence and shooting deaths will happen in Georgia following the law that was just passed in Georgia that allows licensed gun carriers to:

Let's see...

Carry in bars.

The bill allows carry in bars.
The bill also allows proprietors to prohibit carry in bars.

Carry in schools.

The bill prohibits carry in schools, UNLESS
The school administration gives written permission as part of a program that includes training and an approved list of weapons. The approval program must also exclude anyone with a documented history of mental or emotional instability, and would in any case only be opened to current gun license holders. And there's no requirement for the school administration to even set up such a program in the first place.

Face no scrutiny or prosecution if they try to carry through TSA.

Specifically, the bill criminalizes the behavior (as a misdemeanor), unless you turn back when the TSA tells you to.

Apparently the state of Georgia couldn't care less what peaceful citizens do or don't do with their guns in airports, and is content to let such incidents be purely a matter between the citizen and the Feds. Obviously the bill doesn't exempt a violent citizen using a gun in an airport (other than in self-defense) from running afoul of any other laws Georgia might have on the books, and properly feeling the full footprint of Georgia law enforcement up his butt (in addition to the Feds). I'm not sure I see the problem here.

Owners of private establishments have to inform gun owners that they cannot carry at their place of business at the individual level if they don't want guns in their business.

Putting up a "no guns" sign next to the "no smoking", "no shoes..." and "we accept mastercard" signs is such a hardship for such establishments?

 

[plague311]

Putting up a "no guns" sign next to the "no smoking", "no shoes..." and "we accept mastercard" signs is such a hardship for such establishments?

To me that wouldn't be on the "individual" level, it would be a general level. Just a sign that relates to everyone. When I think "individual" level, I think that specific individual. I've seen previously that laws are put in place to fix a situation. What exactly was "broken" before these changes?

 

[Tricky]

I wouldn't expect much of a spike in gun murders. Accidental shootings and suicides seem the more likely candidates for increase.

 

[theprestige]

To me that wouldn't be on the "individual" level, it would be a general level. Just a sign that relates to everyone. When I think "individual" level, I think that specific individual. I've seen previously that laws are put in place to fix a situation. What exactly was "broken" before these changes?

Have you read the document linked in the OP? I think "individual" is thaiboxerken's phrasing, and may not accurately reflect the wording of the bill itself.

 

[plague311]

Have you read the document linked in the OP? I think "individual" is thaiboxerken's phrasing, and may not accurately reflect the wording of the bill itself.

No, but I was mistaken as I read it from another source:

The law also allows Georgians to carry guns into bars and churches as long as the property owner hasn't banned them.

"The Second Amendment should never be an afterthought. It should be at the forefront of our minds," Deal said while touting his NRA endorsement for governor and "A" rating during his 17 years in Congress.

 

[Upchurch]

Can you show me any studies that show how that happened in other areas that loosened gun laws? Please?

eta- Pretty please?

We had a whole thread about a study (pdf warning) that showed just that in Missouri

 

[NoahFence]

I've really no problem with this new law, mostly because it doesn't affect me. I'd just like to use it to point and laugh at the "they're a cummin' for ur gunzz" crowd.

Uh, no. They're not.

 

[lobosrul]

[Q] Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Can you show me any studies that show how that happened in other areas that loosened gun laws? Please?

eta- Pretty please?
http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-d...-ground-2014-2

Quote:
Gun deaths in Florida started out high in the 1990s (when crime was higher everywhere in America) and gradually declined throughout the decade and into the 2000s. Then, in 2005, when the stand your ground law was enacted, murders involving firearms spiked by more than 200 in two years.
But let's let this one play out and see how it goes. All we have to do is avoid Georgia for the next ten years and we'll be fine. [Q/]

but that was SYG.

But lately (last couple decades) something like 35 states have relaxed their gun laws. There out to bundles of examples of increased violence. Or maybe stable rates while the rest of the countries rates were dropping?

Of by the way, since Three Strikes became common. we have tripled the number of inmates. And the number of executions actually has increased too. And the violent crime rates have dropped. Seems that 90% of murderers are repeat felons, and likewise 90% of murder victims are too. Prevent violence, put felons in jail.

Which would also extend their own lives, what with being safe in jail, not out on the streets to get murdered.

Hmm, I wonder how much of our recent improvements in our life expectancy overall is from keeping gang bangers in jail?

No they haven't. Except for a spike in 2009 they have been going down.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-year

I'm too lazy to fact check you on anything else, I just already knew that was wrong. And as an aside I don't know how anyone can think the death penalty is a deterrent when only about 1 in 500 murderers are put to death.

 

[tyr_13]

I wouldn't expect much of a spike in gun murders. Accidental shootings and suicides seem the more likely candidates for increase.

That would be my bet as well.

 

[Armitage72]

I wouldn't expect much of a spike in gun murders. Accidental shootings and suicides seem the more likely candidates for increase.

Especially with guns in bars.

"Here, hold my drink and watch this...<BANG>...oops."
Like William S. Burroughs shooting his wife playing drunken William Tell.

 

[casebro]

No they haven't. Except for a spike in 2009 they have been going down.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-year

I'm too lazy to fact check you on anything else, I just already knew that was wrong. And as an aside I don't know how anyone can think the death penalty is a deterrent when only about 1 in 500 murderers are put to death.

Rose all through the 80s and 90s, peak in 1999, currently higher than before the rise. Can't you read a graph?

 

[Demon Yoyoloach]

Guns in bars.....what could possibly go wrong?

 

[casebro]

We had a whole thread about a study (pdf warning) that showed just that in Missouri

I kind of thought the way they used ten years of history to compare to only two years after the change was a little odd. So(#32) I followed your link to the thread. I cut a pasted a post from that thread.


Quote: Aepervious: I am anti gun, but the article does not look good to me at least from the summary I read.

here is the Missouri murder rate :

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/mocrimn.htm

Now I did not find a split on how those murder were made, but here look at the variation :

1998 399
1999 359
2000 347
2001 372
2002 331
2003 289
2004 354
2005 402
2006 368
2007 385
2008 456
2009 387
2010 420
2011 366
2012 389

Plotted this looks like this :



There is so much variance on murder from year to year, that I have to question the claim on 60 murder being DUE to the law repeal. The law might have had an impact, but comparing 2004-2007 and 2008-2012 I see a huge variance and yet similar numbers nowhere near 60 more and yet 2011 had even less murder than all year in that decade.

In fact the rise started hugely in 2003 when it went 289 to 385 in 2007, when globally murder rate dropped. [/Q]

So I guess I'm just not seeing the Wild West, blood running in the streets, effect of that change either.

But thanks for posting the links.

 

[fuelair]

Let's see...


The bill allows carry in bars.
The bill also allows proprietors to prohibit carry in bars.


The bill prohibits carry in schools, UNLESS
The school administration gives written permission as part of a program that includes training and an approved list of weapons. The approval program must also exclude anyone with a documented history of mental or emotional instability, and would in any case only be opened to current gun license holders. And there's no requirement for the school administration to even set up such a program in the first place.


Specifically, the bill criminalizes the behavior (as a misdemeanor), unless you turn back when the TSA tells you to.

Apparently the state of Georgia couldn't care less what peaceful citizens do or don't do with their guns in airports, and is content to let such incidents be purely a matter between the citizen and the Feds. Obviously the bill doesn't exempt a violent citizen using a gun in an airport (other than in self-defense) from running afoul of any other laws Georgia might have on the books, and properly feeling the full footprint of Georgia law enforcement up his butt (in addition to the Feds). I'm not sure I see the problem here.


Putting up a "no guns" sign next to the "no smoking", "no shoes..." and "we accept mastercard" signs is such a hardship for such establishments?

I assume the reason is so that A) most owners won't bother unless they see the gun, and is almost certain to cause B) most owners will be unlikely to challenge a customer so it appears like the owners have the choice, but they have to hurt business to enforce that choice.

And I still prefer carry most anywhere an attack might happen - which is most anywhere.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I predict a rise in gun violence and shooting deaths will happen in Georgia following the law that was just passed in Georgia that allows licensed gun carriers to:

Carry in bars. Unless the bar specifies that they are not allowed to do so.
Carry in schools. Only if they have written authorization from the school and are NOT a student at the school.
Carry in public owned buildings. In very limited circumstances, but is generally not allowed.
Face no scrutiny or prosecution if they try to carry through TSA. This is just flat out wrong, they are still prohibited from doing so.
Expansion of stand-your-ground (immunity from prosecution for self-defense shootings)


Also, Law Enforcement is not allowed to ask a person with a gun for their carrier license unless they believe that person is planning or doing a crime.

The law repeals regulation of firearm dealers.

Owners of private establishments have to inform gun owners that they cannot carry at their place of business at the individual level if they don't want guns in their business.

Read the entire law here:
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/04/11/gun_bill_report.pdf

I guess one out of five isn't exactly bad... Did you actually read the law?

 

[Emily's Cat]

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-deaths-in-florida-increased-with-stand-your-ground-2014-2



But let's let this one play out and see how it goes. All we have to do is avoid Georgia for the next ten years and we'll be fine.

I love the implication that this is statistically significant... but that somehow this is not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

District of Columbia

• Gun Ownership: 3.6%
• Muders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 21.8
• Gun Murders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 16.5

Florida

• Gun Ownership: 24.5%
• Muders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 5.0
• Gun Murders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 3.9

 

[tyr_13]

I love the implication that this is statistically significant... but that somehow this is not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

District of Columbia

• Gun Ownership: 3.6%
• Muders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 21.8
• Gun Murders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 16.5

Florida

• Gun Ownership: 24.5%
• Muders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 5.0
• Gun Murders per 100,000 Inhabitants: 3.9

It isn't. Comparing a city to another city is problematic, as is comparing a state to another state. Comparing a city to a state isn't useful at all even if they have the same population. There are other known significant factors that are going to be off.

Comparing Miami to DC would be more useful.

 

[Emily's Cat]

But as it continues to widen will that effect the way SYG functions in Georgia? Allowing guns in schools, in my opinion, is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard of in my entire life. I can't even imagine a situation where it's justified (without there being an attack, obviously, or a police response to a situation). That's my own personal opinion. If I found out there were armed parents walking into my son's school and no one was doing anything to change or stop it I would immediately pull my son from that school and send him elsewhere. It's moronic.

That's great. It doesn't. You really ought to read it yourself instead of taking someone else's word for it.

This bill provides that it is a misdemeanor for any license holder to carry weapons on the property of any elementary, secondary, technical, or vocational school or any college, university, or other post-secondary institution. These restrictions and penalties will not apply to any person who has been given written authorization by the appropriate school official to carry such weapons on school property, at school functions, within school "safe zones," and on buses or other transportation furnished by the school.

 

[Ranb]

I guess one out of five isn't exactly bad... Did you actually read the law?

Most likely not. He posted a link to a Senate Research Office report. I posted a link to HB60.

HB60 also allows hunters to use firearms equipped with silencers as long as long as they meet certain restrictions such as property owner permission. I doubt there will be much of an increase in poaching; poachers have always had access to silencers as they are easy to make or buy.

It is interesting that the report says it will be illegal to use subsonic ammo to hunt with, but I found no reference to this in the bill or the GA code. Any GA hunters on the forum who can enlighten me? Thanks.

I predict a rise in gun violence and shooting deaths will happen in Georgia following the law that was just passed in Georgia that allows licensed gun carriers to:

Carry in bars.
Face no scrutiny or prosecution if they try to carry through TSA.

Section 1-5 is is actually amended to allow carrying a gun in bars but only with the owner's permission.
Do you really think GA law will trump federal law and prevent the TSA from taking any action?

Ranb