General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Thunder]

True, but it doesn't take long to get certain regular posters here (not all of them by any means) to get from "I support the Palestinian people" to "well, so what if the baby was stabbed to death? They had it coming, they were Jews who lived where Arabs don't want them to" or to "I support folks who would have people like me lynched as a pervert, so long as they want Israel destroyed."

So I'd say that in the case of those posters, though certainly not in the case of all posters who support the Palestinians on certain issues, they are at least sympathetic to (if not actively supporting) Hamas in particular and Palestinian exterminationism in general, and the "I just support the Palestinian people" thingy is just an excuse.

the amount of strawmen required for this post is insane.

no one except for our resident Neo-Nazis has ever said anything like you describe. I know you are prefectly aware of that, but choose to LIE anyways, because the truth on this matter unfortunately does not support your agenda.

I find it very sad that for the most part, you feel the need to LIE about your opponents views. Time and time again.

 

[Pardalis]

is it wrong to hope for a better future?

Israel is not what's holding Palestinian LGBT rights back.

 

[Skeptic]

attitudes change.

Oh yes. I'm sure the attitudes of jihadi terorrists organizations like Hamas are just as easy to change as that of the liberal democratic citizenry in the west.

Perhaps I should join the local neo-Nazi group, hiding the fact that I'm a Jew. Hey, attitudes change; perhaps they will stop being antisemitic one day?

Hope for a better future!

 

[bikerdruid]

No, but it is certainly wrong to support the very terrorists who would do their darndest to make sure the only future the children have, after first serving as human shields to defend the terrorists from attack, is to be to be jailed or lynched.

You might as well claim that a black person in the 1960s south would do well to support the KKK against the freedom riders, since Black children were once those folks came from up north stirring up our negroes, and, after all, can't we hope the KKK will eventually change and become non-racist?

complete and utter nonsense.
you could light huge fires with all that straw.....

 

[Thunder]

complete and utter nonsense.
you could light huge fires with all that straw.....

the amount of straw required for his argument, would set a blaze that would be visable from the International Space Station.

 

[bikerdruid]

Oh yes. I'm sure the attitudes of jihadi terorrists organizations like Hamas are just as easy to change as that of the liberal democratic citizenry in the west.

Perhaps I should join the local neo-Nazi group, hiding the fact that I'm a Jew. Hey, attitudes change; perhaps they will stop being antisemitic one day?

Hope for a better future!

your continued use of straw men is evidence that you have no sensible argument.

 

[portlandatheist]

deleted: wrong thread

 

[bikerdruid]

The irony and stupidity of a group calling itself "Queers for Palestine" is better than the Onion could come up with as parody. It makes me giggle every time I hear it. It makes about as much sense as a charity for Ted Bundy's legal defense organized by rape victims.

They would have much more fun hanging out with these guys:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=390&pictureid=3130[/qimg]

are you suggesting that sensible people should only support causes that are fun?
the fact that these people are having fun does not diminish the fact that hundreds of palestinian children were killed by the israeli military in 'cast lead'.

 

[portlandatheist]

The irony and stupidity of a group calling itself "Queers for Palestine" is better than the Onion could come up with as parody. It makes me giggle every time I hear it. It makes about as much sense as a charity for Ted Bundy's legal defense organized by rape victims.

They would have much more fun hanging out with these guys:

 

[Thunder]

clearly, its insane to support causes that violate the Neo-Zionist code of conduct.

 

[bikerdruid]

The irony and stupidity of a group calling itself "Queers for Palestine" is better than the Onion could come up with as parody. It makes me giggle every time I hear it. It makes about as much sense as a charity for Ted Bundy's legal defense organized by rape victims.

They would have much more fun hanging out with these guys:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=390&pictureid=3130[/qimg]

see above....
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7020644&postcount=1801

 

[quixotecoyote]

I like this new approach. Quote whatever the other guy says and say "strawman" without explanation or defense. Content-free posts.

eta:
Bonus content. Here is how you call out a strawman post:

are you suggesting that sensible people should only support causes that are fun?
the fact that these people are having fun does not diminish the fact that hundreds of palestinian children were killed by the israeli military in 'cast lead'.

This is a strawman post.

The irony and stupidity of a group calling itself "Queers for Palestine" is better than the Onion could come up with as parody. It makes me giggle every time I hear it. It makes about as much sense as a charity for Ted Bundy's legal defense organized by rape victims.

They would have much more fun hanging out with these guys:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?...pictureid=3130

This poster never puts forward the argument that "sensible people should only support causes that are fun." Instead, it is making the argument that pro-gay groups siding against Israel for Palestine is like rape victims siding against rapists. It suggests that they'd be better working with Israeli pro-gay groups, and the language used in that suggestion was dishonestly twisted into the above strawman.

 

[bikerdruid]

eta:
Bonus content. Here is how you call out a strawman post:

This is a strawman post.

This poster never puts forward the argument that "sensible people should only support causes that are fun." Instead, it is making the argument that pro-gay groups siding against Israel for Palestine is like rape victims siding against rapists. It suggests that they'd be better working with Israeli pro-gay groups, and the language used in that suggestion was dishonestly twisted into the above strawman.

and that is not a strawman post?

 

[quixotecoyote]

and that is not a strawman post?

No. A strawman is when you assign an argument/position to another person and arguing against it while pretending it's what they actually said/believe. Making a claim about what people are doing and whether it is good or bad is not a strawman. It can be right or wrong, but it is not a strawman.

Strawman doesn't just mean "I disagree" or "wrong." It has an actual meaning.

 

[Virus]

QUIT = Queer Useful Idiots for Terrorists.

Sorry, but liberals don't lead the Palestinians. Liberals have about 1% support. The leaders are radical Islamists/nationalists that run the place like the Mafia.

I don't support people who spread Nazi propaganda. I don't support Holocaust deniers.

Instead of looking at what the Palestinians are saying, the useful idiots project their own opinions and attitudes onto the Palestinians, who will tell their useful idiots whatever they want to hear.

 

[Thunder]

QUIT = Queer Useful Idiots for Terrorists.

right, cause being against the Occupation and against the settlements, means you support the terrorists.

 

[Virus]

Terrorists are lauded as heroes in Palestine. There are hundreds of streets and parks named after them. There are posters of them on school walls. There are soccer tournaments named after them. There are specials on TV commemorating them. Killing a Jew is considered the highest ideal and people that die in the process are said to be rewarded with a celestial harem. Of course, none of the useful idiots care about that. They don't really care about raising kids on a cult of suicide and death and what that entails for their future. They support them regardless. After all, the Palestinians are just a convenient stick used to beat Israel.

Israel isn't building settlements. They haven't done that since 1993. When the media talks of "settlement construction" they mean construction in settlements in East Jerusalem that have been there for decades, and are understood to be Jewish neighborhoods. You could have a rational discussion about whether Israel can build a school or a hospital in regions that may become part of a Palestinian state pending negotiations, but you'd have to jettison the lies spread by anti-Israel fanatics.

There's yahoos that go and live in tents and shacks on the West Bank but they don't last long. They get their stuff taken down by the police then they go and do it again. yeah, they're dickbags but not really worth the outrage.

Occupation? Arabs started the war that led to them. Palestinians continued with terror. So it's their fault.

So do you acknowledge that it's not a liberal movement that you're supporting Parky? Do you acknowledge that the Palestinian state is only considered part of a phased plan towards Holy War against Jews and ethnic cleansing? Do you pay much attention to what the Palestinians are actually saying in Arabic?

 

[boyntonstu]

these 600,000 Jews came over a period of 60 odd years. they were not murdered by anyone, so they do not represent 10% of the 6 million Holocaust victims. what are you talking about????



again, what are you talking about???



the only folks I know of who think there is a "Jew Problem", are Neo-Nazis.

are you a Neo-Nazi?

Years Ethiopian-born Immigrants

Total Immigration to Israel

1948–51 10 687,624
1952–60 59 297,138
1961–71 98 427,828
1972–79 306 267,580
1980–89 16,965 153,833
1990–99 39,651 956,319
2000–04 14,859 181,505
2005 3,573 21,180
2006 3,595 19,269

http://en.wikipedia.org.wiiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus_from_Lydda_and_Ramle
"Of just under 700,000 Jews who immigrated to Israel between 1948 and 1951."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia

Since the adoption of the Jackson-Vanik amendment, over one million Soviet Jews have immigrated to Israel.

That is a lot of people in a few years. No Camps.

 

[Thunder]

Terrorists are lauded as heroes in Palestine and in Israel.

edited for accuracy.

Israel isn't building settlements. They haven't done that since 1993.

ridiculous lie. expanding existing settlements is building settlements.

Occupation?

Yes, Israel still occupies the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza.

Do you acknowledge that the Palestinian state is only considered part of a phased plan towards Holy War against Jews and ethnic cleansing?

not any more than I acknowldge Holocaust denial, Nakba denial, Holodomor denial, or denial of the Armenian genocide.

 

[Arcade22]

Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism (QUIT)

Any organization that brings up sexual orientation when it's not relevant is trash. Unless your group's objective is to help HBT people by:

• Finding them mates for sex, relationships or just friendship
• Supporting HBT rights
• Offering emotional, medical or informational support

then you can shut up about whether you like to **** men, boys, black people, the elderly, Jews, dogs or whatever tickles your fancy.

Looking at their website (which is terrible btw) i don't see how their "queerness" (don't use this word, ever) is in anyway relevant to their support for a "free-Palestine". I'm sure there are plenty of groups that are much more effective and noticeable in their struggle for either HBT rights or hating Israel.

What's next? "Interracial-Couples Struggle For a Free Tibet", or maybe "The International Dendrophiles Congress Against Imperialism"? Morons...