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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

webfusion said:
Palestinians are fully aware of the deleterious effects on the entire society from both HAMAS in Gaza and the P-A.

Gaza markets are open.
Fuel is available.
Water is flowing through pipelines.
Food supplies exist.

While I am not disagreeing that the war has severely curtailed the 'normal' functioning of Gaza, it must be recognized that the entire aim of Israeli actions at this point revolves around making HAMAS irrelevant and incapable of holding onto power.
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Thank you for having the patience to speak the simple truth to the morons, liars, anti-semites anti-Zionists, and useful idiots of Hamas in our midst.
 
Poem said:
If you are suggesting that there aren't in fact any real Palestinians refugees then I think you'd have to work a bit harder than that.
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Not at all, I'm merely pointing out that the 'refugees' in many of the 'refugee camps' weren't deprived of being in Palestine ('their homeland') but only were in another nearby part of it, among their Arab brethren (who treated them horribly, both the Beduoin Hashemites and the Egyptians.)

This is the tragedy of Palestine, whereby the Arab people living therein aren't organized well enough to break out of 'victimhood' and as such, just keep the 'refugee' (UNRWA?) bleating continuing.

Maybe this will be the turning point for them all.
Gaza/N.Sinai can be a boon for them all. All it takes is a strongman to unify the clans.
((Hint: Dahlan))
 
arthwollipot said:
Meanwhile, the ethnic cleansing is going on out in the open now.

www.theguardian.com

Israeli plan for forced transfer of Gaza’s population ‘a blueprint for crimes against humanity’

Military ordered to turn ruins of Rafah into ‘humanitarian city’ but experts call the plan an internment camp for all Palestinians in Gaza
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Meanwhile you continue to ignore the fact that forced expulsion has occurred for Jews too. Why are you posting only half the story?
 
Poem said:
Meanwhile you continue to ignore the fact that forced expulsion has occurred for Jews too. Why are you posting only half the story?
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And are Palestinians in a position to do anything about it?
They aren't even allowed to eat or receive basic healthcare, water, shelter, protection from violence.
How are they supposed to come up with a solution in the few hours between having bombs dropped on them?

Israel isn't even acknowledging that there is a Palestinian Representative who could be negotiated with for territory.
If you are concerned with displaced Jews z your beef is with the Israeli government.
 
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theprestige said:
Hamas is the occupying power in Gaza.
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Even you must know that is nonsense! The IDF literally occupy Gazan homes and live in them (and vandalise them, and loot them). The IDF literally directs Palestinians as to where they go, where they can live, if they live or die. Israel literally controls everything entering Gaza, food, water, fuel, medical aid, sanitary and hygiene packs. They decide if a hospital can open or close, where an ambulance can go. They detain and torture Palestinians with no legal restraint or system. What more is needed to define an occupation? There was a (weak) legal argument that Israel wasn't the occupying power when they didn't have boots on the ground, but that argument was lost when they invaded Gaza.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
And are Palestinians in a position to do anything about it?
They aren't even allowed to eat or receive basic healthcare, water, shelter, protection from violence.
How are they supposed to come up with a solution in the few hours between having bombs dropped on them?

Israel isn't even acknowledging that there is a Palestinian Representative who could be negotiated with for territory.
If you are concerned with displaced Jews z your beef is with the Israeli government.
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Nobody is asking the Palestinians to address the Jewish refugee issue - it's a United Nations problem (as previously posted):

UN Resolution 242 (1967), emphasizes that peace in the Middle East should include "a just settlement of the refugee problem".
 
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webfusion said:
Not at all, I'm merely pointing out that the 'refugees' in many of the 'refugee camps' weren't deprived of being in Palestine ('their homeland') but only were in another nearby part of it, among their Arab brethren (who treated them horribly, both the Beduoin Hashemites and the Egyptians.)

This is the tragedy of Palestine, whereby the Arab people living therein aren't organized well enough to break out of 'victimhood' and as such, just keep the 'refugee' (UNRWA?) bleating continuing.

Maybe this will be the turning point for them all.
Gaza/N.Sinai can be a boon for them all. All it takes is a strongman to unify the clans.
((Hint: Dahlan))
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Whilst I think it is true that it has been expedient for many Muslim countries to perpetuate the existence of Palestinian refugees, my understanding is that the Mizrahi Jews who settled in Israel weren't treated too kindly either.

The real hypocrisy is that the world rubber stamped/stamps the forced expulsion of Jews and their assimilation into other countries, but is outraged that the same is happening to Palestinians. We should address both issues.
 
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Mena research: The emigration and expulsion of Jews from Arab countries

MENA:
Established in 2018 and HQ in Vienna, Austria, is an independent, non-partisan, and secular think tank dedicated to fostering informed public discourse and contributing to effective policy development. Through methodologically rigorous and evidence-based research, the Center examines political, security, social, cultural, economic, and religious dynamics in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA), with a particular emphasis on their implications for Europe.
 
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From that MENA research:

In 2007, the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries estimated that values of up to 300 billion US dollars (according to today’s assessment) were left behind, including over 100,000 square kilometers of land, particularly in Egypt, Morocco and Iraq (which is about five times an area as big as Israel).
 
Poem said:
What percentage of Israel, would you say, is made of Mizrahi Jews and their descendants?
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I don't know and for the purposes of this specific conversation I don't care because it's irrelevant. The genocide of Palestinians isn't being carried out by Mizrahi Jews, it's being carried out by the Israeli state.
 
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arthwollipot said:
I don't know and I don't care. The genocide of Palestinians isn't being carried out by Mizrahi Jews, it's being carried out by the Israeli state.
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You didn't establish that a genocide is happening.

That a continuing catastrophe is unfolding before our eyes is without doubt - but your head in the sand sound bite posting, typical of the general bias, isn't going to sort anything out.
 
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arthwollipot said:
I don't know and for the purposes of this specific conversation I don't care because it's irrelevant. The genocide of Palestinians isn't being carried out by Mizrahi Jews, it's being carried out by the Israeli state.
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It is not irrelevant. What has happened to you that you choose to ignore the history that has got us to this point in the crisis?

Astonishing.
 
Poem said:
It is not irrelevant. What has happened to you that you choose to ignore the history that has got us to this point in the crisis?

Astonishing.
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Its totally irrelevant to the genocide happening in Gaza, which is being done by ALL IDFascists, including Mizrahi soldiers.
 
Hercules56 said:
Its totally irrelevant to the genocide happening in Gaza, which is being done by ALL IDFascists, including Mizrahi soldiers.
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It's relevant to a discussion that does not want to paint a one-sided picture of the refugee issue.
 
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