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Merged General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 2

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So...don't you think that the same can be said of the Arab whackos that teach their children to hate?

And thus we see the complete incoherence of your position. You want to pretend that this hatred is some fringe opinion that can and should be ignored, but just one post above, you tried to justify it. Which is it then, Jules? Is this genocidal hatred of Jews a bad thing, or is it a acceptable?

The answer, of course, is that you don't care. You'll take whichever position you think paints Jews least favorably.
 
And thus we see the complete incoherence of your position. You want to pretend that this hatred is some fringe opinion that can and should be ignored, but just one post above, you tried to justify it. Which is it then, Jules? Is this genocidal hatred of Jews a bad thing, or is it a acceptable?

The answer, of course, is that you don't care. You'll take whichever position you think paints Jews least favorably.

Baloney. You are making stuff up.

Anyways...Murder, Land Theft, Slander and Libel: these are the crimes that Israel commits against the Palestinians on a daily basis...and this is the real issue you seek to avoid. God forbid should you acknowledge that Israel runs the largest open-air prison ever conceived in which they keep the Palestinians confined - in squaler and under constant threat of violence. And every year Israel steals a little more land and drives the Palestinians into an even smaller area - surrounded by walls, machine-gun towers and concertina wire. And, should someone object, then the Israelis and their Hasbara Team will waste no time trying to label you a moral degenerate who doesn't properly pity Israel's plight, or of hating Jews in general.

Israel's moral bankruptcy is near complete. I mean, even as corrupt and wicked as the NAZIs were - they never begged for pity and wore victimhood like a suit of armor.
 
Baloney. You are making stuff up.

Not at all. Here you are saying the Israelis deserve it:

If the Israelis don't like being attacked, then they should quit murdering Palestinians and stealing their land, and get out of Palestine.

And here you are saying that it's just an inconsequential minority of Palestinians doing it:

So...don't you think that the same can be said of the Arab whackos that teach their children to hate?

I didn't make up anything.

Anyways...Murder, Land Theft, Slander and Libel: these are the crimes that Israel commits against the Palestinians on a daily basis...and this is the real issue you seek to avoid.

Again: when confronted with evidence that Palestinians are murdering Jews, and slandering them too, you immediately turn around and blame everything on the Jews. And I'm the one who's avoiding the "real issue"?

But of course I am, because for you, murdering Jews isn't a real issue.

God forbid should you acknowledge that Israel runs the largest open-air prison ever conceived in which they keep the Palestinians confined - in squaler and under constant threat of violence.

Why can't the Palestinians leave through Jordan or Egypt? It isn't Israel which refuses them exit.

God forbid you should acknowledge that not everything can be blamed on the Jews.

And every year Israel steals a little more land and drives the Palestinians into an even smaller area - surrounded by walls, machine-gun towers and concertina wire. And, should someone object, then the Israelis and their Hasbara Team will waste no time trying to label you a moral degenerate who doesn't properly pity Israel's plight, or of hating Jews in general.

When the shoe fits....

Israel's moral bankruptcy is near complete. I mean, even as corrupt and wicked as the NAZIs were - they never begged for pity and wore victimhood like a suit of armor.

No Jew hatred would be complete without comparing them to Nazis. This is as incoherent as all your other arguments, but then, Jew hatred has never been rational, I can't expect it to start being rational now.
 
Not at all. Here you are saying the Israelis deserve it:



And here you are saying that it's just an inconsequential minority of Palestinians doing it:



I didn't make up anything.



Again: when confronted with evidence that Palestinians are murdering Jews, and slandering them too, you immediately turn around and blame everything on the Jews. And I'm the one who's avoiding the "real issue"?

But of course I am, because for you, murdering Jews isn't a real issue.



Why can't the Palestinians leave through Jordan or Egypt? It isn't Israel which refuses them exit.

God forbid you should acknowledge that not everything can be blamed on the Jews.



When the shoe fits....



No Jew hatred would be complete without comparing them to Nazis. This is as incoherent as all your other arguments, but then, Jew hatred has never been rational, I can't expect it to start being rational now.


There it is folks: Israel's Weapon of Mass Deception - the favorite tool of the Hasbara Parrots. That's right folks, criticize Israel and you too can get accused of being a racist who irrationally hates all Jews.

The Logic goes like this, folks:

Criticizing Israel = Jew Hatred
Jew Hatred = Irrational

Therefore,

Criticizing Israel = Irrational

or...in it's more larger context:

Criticizing Israel = Irrational Jew Hatred = Anti-Semitism

or

Criticizing Israel = Anti-Semitism

Thus, the entire intent of the Hasbara Puppet is not to honestly argue a point, it is to Slander and Libel anyone who dares criticize Israel.

Don't fall for it folks, and please stop being afraid of it. this type of argument can be shut down. CAIR - the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) - tried to use this same approach years ago, and that approach was exposed and rendered futile. Time to do the same with Hasbara.
 
Blah Blah Blah.

If the Israelis don't like being attacked, then they should quit murdering Palestinians and stealing their land, and get out of Palestine. Also, they should stop spewing the "Victimhood" propaganda - for the Israelis ain't anyone's victim: they are vicious colonialists armed with the latest milirary hardware and Nuclear Weapons.

Lol!

It's funny you claim it's the Israelis who are spewing "victimhood" propaganda. I don't see them doing that, maybe you could point it out to me?

Palestinian victimhood propaganda, I see that all the time. From you, among others. Truth is those that hate Israelis hate them because they don't play the victim

Could it be because it was being practised by a small and inconsequential minority of Jews?

So...don't you think that the same can be said of the Arab whackos that teach their children to hate?

Small and inconsequential...

Let's see what I found in my newsfeed today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/25/w...estinian-girl-12-who-tried-to-stab-guard.html

Dima was given a hero’s welcome Sunday in Halhoul, her hometown. Large banners welcoming her were draped in front of her home, music blared from loudspeakers, and drivers in a convoy honked.

While eagerly eating her first ice cream cone in months, Dima said she intended to kill the security guard on Feb. 9 but was quickly apprehended. She said she had hoped that she would be killed.

“I was dreaming that I was going to be martyred,” she said. She said she had been influenced by other young Palestinians who stabbed or tried to stab Israeli soldiers and civilians. The wave of attacks, now sputtering, began last year.


Yeah, small and inconsequential.
 
Lol!

It's funny you claim it's the Israelis who are spewing "victimhood" propaganda. I don't see them doing that, maybe you could point it out to me?

Palestinian victimhood propaganda, I see that all the time. From you, among others. Truth is those that hate Israelis hate them because they don't play the victim



Small and inconsequential...

Let's see what I found in my newsfeed today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/25/w...estinian-girl-12-who-tried-to-stab-guard.html

Dima was given a hero’s welcome Sunday in Halhoul, her hometown. Large banners welcoming her were draped in front of her home, music blared from loudspeakers, and drivers in a convoy honked.

While eagerly eating her first ice cream cone in months, Dima said she intended to kill the security guard on Feb. 9 but was quickly apprehended. She said she had hoped that she would be killed.

“I was dreaming that I was going to be martyred,” she said. She said she had been influenced by other young Palestinians who stabbed or tried to stab Israeli soldiers and civilians. The wave of attacks, now sputtering, began last year.


Yeah, small and inconsequential.

Like I said....if Israel doesn't like it, then they can stop occupying Palestine. Obviously, Israel has chosen a path they are content to walk - they have chosen the path of hatred, theft and violence - and they've turned a notable part of the Palestinian Community into death-worshiping "Looney Tunes".

Ah Israel...the Promised Land! (or is it the world's largest open-air Insane Asylum?)
 
There it is folks: Israel's Weapon of Mass Deception - the favorite tool of the Hasbara Parrots. That's right folks, criticize Israel and you too can get accused of being a racist who irrationally hates all Jews.

Well, you haven't given me a rational reason yet.

The Logic goes like this, folks:

Criticizing Israel = Jew Hatred

Nope. That's not the logic at all. The logic is to note the remarkable double standard you have, the internal contradictions in your own posts, and the vitriol with which you make all your accusations. What you are doing isn't simply criticizing Israel. It's far beyond that.

Thus, the entire intent of the Hasbara Puppet is not to honestly argue a point, it is to Slander and Libel anyone who dares criticize Israel.

What started our little exchange, Jules? I dared criticize the Palestinians, and you flew off the handle.

Your hypocrisy is remarkable.
 
Like I said....if Israel doesn't like it, then they can stop occupying Palestine. Obviously, Israel has chosen a path they are content to walk - they have chosen the path of hatred, theft and violence - and they've turned a notable part of the Palestinian Community into death-worshiping "Looney Tunes".

I don't see any rational basis for asserting that it's the Israelis and not the Palestinians who have chosen the path of hatred, theft and violence.



Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
 
I don't see any rational basis for asserting that it's the Israelis and not the Palestinians who have chosen the path of hatred, theft and violence.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

No...not "Israelis" (which means the people) but Israel (the government). Same distinction for the Palestinians vs Palestine (Palestinian Government).

So...when I refer to the moral bankruptcy of Israel, I am in no way referring to all Israelis. Likewise with the Palestinians.

But...I don't criticize the Palestinian Government so much - although Hamas certainly needs it - I save that for Israel.

Why? You may ask, but probably won't. Well...the primary reason (and there are several) is because we (America) don't sell weapons to the Palestinians or give them Billions of Dollars per year...so they are not our problem. However, Israel, because we arm it with weapons and money that it uses to subjugate an Arab population, is our problem. And we should feel free to criticize Israel, and Israel should be free to decline taking our money and weapons if they can't handle the criticism of their blatant colonialism.
 
Except you're not criticizing anything. If anything it seems like you only want to provoke a reaction by seeing how over the top your rhetoric can go without putting anything solid to back it up.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
 
But...I don't criticize the Palestinian Government so much - although Hamas certainly needs it - I save that for Israel.

Why? You may ask, but probably won't. Well...the primary reason (and there are several) is because we (America) don't sell weapons to the Palestinians or give them Billions of Dollars per year...so they are not our problem.

We've been giving about half a billion dollars a year to the Palestinians. Did you not know this?

And we should feel free to criticize Israel

You are. But when your criticism isn't rational (and it isn't), you will receive criticism yourself.
 
Why, when faced with the direct evidence that Rabbis were biting the penis' of little babies and giving them herpes did you and Ziggurat not say anything:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2012/09/13/nyregion/SUCTION1/SUCTION1-articleLarge.jpg

Could it be because it was being practised by a small and inconsequential minority of Jews?

In short, you've got no good answer, then, given that you're trying to condemn us for not reacting to something that wasn't presented in the first place and not even backing it up with valid evidence for your claim. Good to know that you think of the Arabs as equivalent to animals, if you're going to use that kind of response. But back to your claim here, yes, when direct evidence of unnecessary harm is being done by a group, I have no problem with condemning them for such and certainly have. I'm not in favor of circumcision or the Jewish bris at all and have said as much before.

So...don't you think that the same can be said of the Arab whackos that teach their children to hate?

The false equivalence here would be staggering, frankly, if it was in any way unexpected when dealing with you on this subject. Either way, it's hard to tell how, exactly, you intended this, given your tone versus the facts. If you are, in fact, comparing how common the Jewish cultural tradition of circumcision is to how common the Palestinian cultural tradition of teaching hatred for the Jews is, that would quite undermine your attempted claim here.

There it is folks: Israel's Weapon of Mass Deception - the favorite tool of the Hasbara Parrots. That's right folks, criticize Israel and you too can get accused of being a racist who irrationally hates all Jews.

Sad as usual. There's lots and lots of room for valid criticism of Israel and various actions done by the Jewish people, and, in fact, quite a bit of it has been forwarded in this thread without anyone claiming anti-semitism, irrationality, or anything like that. That doesn't mean that all criticism of Israel and the Jews is valid or at all reasonable and combined with a body of work of very one-sided claims that includes a number of not particularly rational claims, certainly can lead to the conclusion that one is a racist who irrationally hates Jews. Naturally, that doesn't negate facts, but it certainly makes the one presenting them much less trustworthy.

Lol!

It's funny you claim it's the Israelis who are spewing "victimhood" propaganda. I don't see them doing that, maybe you could point it out to me?

Palestinian victimhood propaganda, I see that all the time. From you, among others. Truth is those that hate Israelis hate them because they don't play the victim

I'm quite sure that the Israeli victimhood propaganda isn't all that hard to find, even if I don't feel like looking up any at the moment. With that said, though, there's more than enough in the way of legitimately concerning issues that such can easily be as good as ignored or dismissed from consideration in any rational discussion.

But...I don't criticize the Palestinian Government so much - although Hamas certainly needs it - I save that for Israel.

Why? You may ask, but probably won't. Well...the primary reason (and there are several) is because we (America) don't sell weapons to the Palestinians or give them Billions of Dollars per year...so they are not our problem. However, Israel, because we arm it with weapons and money that it uses to subjugate an Arab population, is our problem. And we should feel free to criticize Israel, and Israel should be free to decline taking our money and weapons if they can't handle the criticism of their blatant colonialism.

Seriously? At last check, the United States has been the single largest contributor of various kinds of aid to the Palestinians over the years. Yes, it has certainly given more to Israel, but the amount to the Palestinians has hardly been insignificant. There's more that can be said, certainly, but to what end?

Besides that, though, there is certainly the very real question of why you choose those criteria, rather than just leaving things at putting the credit and blame for various events where it goes, without dragging in largely superfluous considerations. Given that this place has as good as nothing to do with the US' decisions when it comes to offering official criticism or aid to Israel, your reasoning rings entirely hollow.
 
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In short, you've got no good answer, then, given that you're trying to condemn us for not reacting to something that wasn't presented in the first place and not even backing it up with valid evidence for your claim. Good to know that you think of the Arabs as equivalent to animals, if you're going to use that kind of response. But back to your claim here, yes, when direct evidence of unnecessary harm is being done by a group, I have no problem with condemning them for such and certainly have. I'm not in favor of circumcision or the Jewish bris at all and have said as much before.



The false equivalence here would be staggering, frankly, if it was in any way unexpected when dealing with you on this subject. Either way, it's hard to tell how, exactly, you intended this, given your tone versus the facts. If you are, in fact, comparing how common the Jewish cultural tradition of circumcision is to how common the Palestinian cultural tradition of teaching hatred for the Jews is, that would quite undermine your attempted claim here.



Sad as usual. There's lots and lots of room for valid criticism of Israel and various actions done by the Jewish people, and, in fact, quite a bit of it has been forwarded in this thread without anyone claiming anti-semitism, irrationality, or anything like that. That doesn't mean that all criticism of Israel and the Jews is valid or at all reasonable and combined with a body of work of very one-sided claims that includes a number of not particularly rational claims, certainly can lead to the conclusion that one is a racist who irrationally hates Jews. Naturally, that doesn't negate facts, but it certainly makes the one presenting them much less trustworthy.



I'm quite sure that the Israeli victimhood propaganda isn't all that hard to find, even if I don't feel like looking up any at the moment. With that said, though, there's more than enough in the way of legitimately concerning issues that such can easily be as good as ignored or dismissed from consideration in any rational discussion.



Seriously? At last check, the United States has been the single largest contributor of various kinds of aid to the Palestinians over the years. Yes, it has certainly given more to Israel, but the amount to the Palestinians has hardly been insignificant. There's more that can be said, certainly, but to what end?

Besides that, though, there is certainly the very real question of why you choose those criteria, rather than just leaving things at putting the credit and blame for various events where it goes, without dragging in largely superfluous considerations. Given that this place has as good as nothing to do with the US' decisions when it comes to offering official criticism or aid to Israel, your reasoning rings entirely hollow.


Blah....Blah....Blah....

As long as Israel continues its policy of Land Theft and Murder, the fighting will go on. Get used to it. And please don't "Whine" about it.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah seems to be stocking up on SA-17 Buk Missile Systems. I guess this is a payback from Putin for all the good work Hezbollah has done fighting ISIS. Well, Hezbollah already rendered the Merkava Tank useless, so I guess now they are concentrating on rendering Israel's Airforce useless, too.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/8/l-todd-wood-hezbollah-acquires-advance-russian-air/

Wow...if this trend continues, Israel may one day actually have to go out and fight Hezbollah mano-a-mano instead of shooting at them from a great distance: and this will be a lot different than their usual stomping on Palestinian Peasants!. I hope the IDF has practiced their Krav Maga!
 
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Blah....Blah....Blah....

That's your standard response when you can't actually address an argument.

As long as Israel continues its policy of Land Theft and Murder, the fighting will go on. Get used to it. And please don't "Whine" about it.

Israel does not have a policy of "Land Theft and Murder". And when Palestinians blow up civilian buses, that's not "fighting", that's terrorism.

You don't actually favor peace, you're just on the other side. You're an apologist for Islamic terrorism. Stalin had a term for people like you.
 
That's your standard response when you can't actually address an argument.



Israel does not have a policy of "Land Theft and Murder". And when Palestinians blow up civilian buses, that's not "fighting", that's terrorism.

You don't actually favor peace, you're just on the other side. You're an apologist for Islamic terrorism. Stalin had a term for people like you.

And you like to make excuses for violent Regimes like Israel that use modern weaponry to terrorize peasants, steal their land and murder them. It's called being a "Toady".

And if you are sick of Israelis being stabbed, and busses being blown up....then too bad. Israel made the choice to steal land and murder any Palestinian who objected, and they are paying the price for their choices. And when Israel wants it to end, they can make it stop. But...Israel doesn't want it to stop - not as long as there is more land to grab!

Grow up...Dude. And realize that the Palestinians will not be systematically destroyed without a fight. So quit your whining.
 
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And you like to make excuses for violent Regimes like Israel that use modern weaponry to terrorize peasants, steal their land and murder them. It's called being a "Toady".

And you are a toady for the enemies of civilization, who revel in the deaths of their own children. Ponder what evil that requires.

And if you are sick of Israelis being stabbed, and busses being blown up....then too bad. Israel made the choice to steal land and murder any Palestinian who objected, and they are paying the price for their choices.

Huh. If they're trying to kill any Palestinian who objects, then one would expect there to be a lot more dead Palestinians, what with all that modern weaponry Israel has.

And when Israel wants it to end, they can make it stop.

Indeed, they could: if they actually did what you claim that they do, then the problem would end. As Stalin supposedly said, no man, no problem. But Israel doesn't want to commit genocide. Hamas, on the other hand, does.

Grow up...Dude.

Your strange fixation on inappropriate capitalization suggests your own arrested development. Do not attempt putdowns, Jules, you are not my match.

And realize that the Palestinians will not be systematically destroyed without a fight.

If Israel was trying to systematically destroy the Palestinians, they would already be destroyed, and no amount of will to fight would matter. They survive precisely because that is NOT what Israel wants.

So quit your whining.

It was not me who initiated the complaints in this exchange.
 
If Israel was trying to systematically destroy the Palestinians, they would already be destroyed, and no amount of will to fight would matter. They survive precisely because that is NOT what Israel wants.
Israel has never wanted to destroy the Palestinians, just to get shot of them. They got shot of a lot of them back in 1948-49, and more in '67, but they're still currently stuck with a bunch more that can't easily be "spirited across the border", as Herzl put it.

Israeli settlements will continue to expand, not least because their populations are exhorted to breed for god and nation, while the Palestinians will be increasingly confined, but there's no planned end, no final intention. There's occasional vague talk of "voluntary expatriation" through making their lives untenable but it's fantasy. So the process becomes the only reality.
 
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