Wroclaw
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 1,500
Today, "Zulu" posted his own version of David Cole's 46 Questions on gas chambers. Here are the first ten answered. Someone please point him here:
1. If the question is why did the SS begin building Krema II-V in 1942, rather than in 1941, when extermination was determined as policy, one important factor to bear in mind is just when this decision was actually made. Christian Gerlach has theorized that this decision came as late as December 12, 1941; thus, the period between the order for extermination and orders to build four crematoria at Birkenau earliest orders date for September 1942) would be around nine months.
However, we must also bear in mind that the Wannsee Conference would have to be convened first to disseminate the information regarding the Final Solution. That meeting did not convene until January 20, 1942. Thus, the period is now down to eight months.
Furthermore, the question leaves out that Krema I and the Auschwitz Main Camp was being used since September 1941, when methods of mass execution other than the Einsatzgruppen were being investigated. And between the time that the Wannsee Conference was held and the work on Krema II began, we know that two farmhouses the Red Bunker and White Bunker (Bunkers I and II). We know this, in part, thanks to Höss, Broad, Böck, Höblinger, members of the Sonderkommando, André Lettich, and Dr. Kremer.
2. I'm curious to know whether Zulu is aware of what the building that Pressac and others have identified as the Zentral Sauna know what the building was used for. Pressac actually says what it was for on the very same pages that Zulu cites: It was for disinfection of clothing.
Now, if the question is why an extermination camp would have a facility for fumigating clothing, perhaps he would like to explain why the SS would not recycle the camp uniforms of dead prisoners. Further, perhaps he would like to claim that normative historians do not believe that prisoners were put to slave labor. When the SS chose Jews for slave labor, they did not want these Jews to drop dead of typhus a day later; thus, they fumigated uniforms before putting them back into inmate circulation.
Central processing was also done at the building known as the Sauna. This is the standard history, which no one denies.
3. They were all surrounded by trees. Any look at the air photos confirms this.
4. That's because the documents in question had the secrecy policy applied to them before they left the camp. Take, e.g., the Vergasungskeller document. When the word was used — in this case, just among SS personnel — the document was flagged and a note made to assure that Kirschneck would know not to use that word in other communications.
Now, we're all aware that deniers don't like the interpretation that Vergasungskeller means "gas chamber." Unfortunately, the eyewitness testimony also indicates the room referred to in that document as a gas chamber. The room has tested positive for HCN — even Rudolf found cyanide on the walls of the room. Finally, no other room at Birkenau has been identified as being a "Vergasungskeller" — the word appears a single time in the archives. This indicates not only that this room was not any of the other suggested rooms (e.g., an air-raid shelter — if that were the case, we'd see it mentioned as such in the documents because that's nothing anyone would need to hide, but it is not), but that the term, once flagged, wasn't used again.
5. Well, they're really only partially underground, but why do this? A few reasons: (1) It renders them easier to hide; (2) In the winter, it would be warmer underground than above ground, making the outgassing of Zyklon-B easier; and (3) It's possible that it was done to make it far more difficult for the installation to be destroyed.
I doubt cost was much of a concern, since the Jews were being systemically robbed of their wealth. In a real sense, they thus funded their own extermination.
6. According to Nyszli, up to twenty-five bodies could fit into an elevator at once, meaning up to a hundred trips up per gassing. Pressac notes that this is probable in terms of the capacity of the elevators themselves. However, we also know that the oven itself in Krema II could "process" 2,250 bodies per day, on average. That is essentially one gassing per day for Krema II with the rest of the day (twenty-three hours, perhaps) to move the bodies and cremate them.
I see no problem with this estimate. When the load was considerably more (e.g., Summer 1944), pit burnings had to be done. Likely, within the Krema buildings, there will considerable bottle-necks.
Incidentally, the 300 kg elevator was replaced by a 1500 kg elevator in February 1943. Perhaps you can explain why.
7. You can't use NI-9912 to explain homicidal gassings for at least two reasons: (1) It's a document on gassing vermin —*it says so right at the top; and (2) The SS sought to protect themselves, which is why they employed the SK.
Regarding the issue of HCN remaining in Zyklon-B after fifteen minutes, this is indeed true. Richard Green reported that after 18 minutes, the SK could operated without gas masks safely and, at 24 minutes, the workplace would conform to OSHA standards.
Further, to repeat, the SS were not concerned that the SK remain in good health.
Final point: At 15 minutes, there would be about half the HCN left in the Zyklon-B.
8. Drains don't matter; cyanide gas would rise — not fall. Nor were the drains in such a position that would risk having the Zyklon-B fall through. And, again, the directions from NI-9912 don't matter here.
9. You need to indicate which "Leichenkeller" you're referring to in order to answer this question.
10. Pressac says the building was not originally designed for the purpose for which it was used.
Shall I continue?
1. If the question is why did the SS begin building Krema II-V in 1942, rather than in 1941, when extermination was determined as policy, one important factor to bear in mind is just when this decision was actually made. Christian Gerlach has theorized that this decision came as late as December 12, 1941; thus, the period between the order for extermination and orders to build four crematoria at Birkenau earliest orders date for September 1942) would be around nine months.
However, we must also bear in mind that the Wannsee Conference would have to be convened first to disseminate the information regarding the Final Solution. That meeting did not convene until January 20, 1942. Thus, the period is now down to eight months.
Furthermore, the question leaves out that Krema I and the Auschwitz Main Camp was being used since September 1941, when methods of mass execution other than the Einsatzgruppen were being investigated. And between the time that the Wannsee Conference was held and the work on Krema II began, we know that two farmhouses the Red Bunker and White Bunker (Bunkers I and II). We know this, in part, thanks to Höss, Broad, Böck, Höblinger, members of the Sonderkommando, André Lettich, and Dr. Kremer.
2. I'm curious to know whether Zulu is aware of what the building that Pressac and others have identified as the Zentral Sauna know what the building was used for. Pressac actually says what it was for on the very same pages that Zulu cites: It was for disinfection of clothing.
Now, if the question is why an extermination camp would have a facility for fumigating clothing, perhaps he would like to explain why the SS would not recycle the camp uniforms of dead prisoners. Further, perhaps he would like to claim that normative historians do not believe that prisoners were put to slave labor. When the SS chose Jews for slave labor, they did not want these Jews to drop dead of typhus a day later; thus, they fumigated uniforms before putting them back into inmate circulation.
Central processing was also done at the building known as the Sauna. This is the standard history, which no one denies.
3. They were all surrounded by trees. Any look at the air photos confirms this.
4. That's because the documents in question had the secrecy policy applied to them before they left the camp. Take, e.g., the Vergasungskeller document. When the word was used — in this case, just among SS personnel — the document was flagged and a note made to assure that Kirschneck would know not to use that word in other communications.
Now, we're all aware that deniers don't like the interpretation that Vergasungskeller means "gas chamber." Unfortunately, the eyewitness testimony also indicates the room referred to in that document as a gas chamber. The room has tested positive for HCN — even Rudolf found cyanide on the walls of the room. Finally, no other room at Birkenau has been identified as being a "Vergasungskeller" — the word appears a single time in the archives. This indicates not only that this room was not any of the other suggested rooms (e.g., an air-raid shelter — if that were the case, we'd see it mentioned as such in the documents because that's nothing anyone would need to hide, but it is not), but that the term, once flagged, wasn't used again.
5. Well, they're really only partially underground, but why do this? A few reasons: (1) It renders them easier to hide; (2) In the winter, it would be warmer underground than above ground, making the outgassing of Zyklon-B easier; and (3) It's possible that it was done to make it far more difficult for the installation to be destroyed.
I doubt cost was much of a concern, since the Jews were being systemically robbed of their wealth. In a real sense, they thus funded their own extermination.
6. According to Nyszli, up to twenty-five bodies could fit into an elevator at once, meaning up to a hundred trips up per gassing. Pressac notes that this is probable in terms of the capacity of the elevators themselves. However, we also know that the oven itself in Krema II could "process" 2,250 bodies per day, on average. That is essentially one gassing per day for Krema II with the rest of the day (twenty-three hours, perhaps) to move the bodies and cremate them.
I see no problem with this estimate. When the load was considerably more (e.g., Summer 1944), pit burnings had to be done. Likely, within the Krema buildings, there will considerable bottle-necks.
Incidentally, the 300 kg elevator was replaced by a 1500 kg elevator in February 1943. Perhaps you can explain why.
7. You can't use NI-9912 to explain homicidal gassings for at least two reasons: (1) It's a document on gassing vermin —*it says so right at the top; and (2) The SS sought to protect themselves, which is why they employed the SK.
Regarding the issue of HCN remaining in Zyklon-B after fifteen minutes, this is indeed true. Richard Green reported that after 18 minutes, the SK could operated without gas masks safely and, at 24 minutes, the workplace would conform to OSHA standards.
Further, to repeat, the SS were not concerned that the SK remain in good health.
Final point: At 15 minutes, there would be about half the HCN left in the Zyklon-B.
8. Drains don't matter; cyanide gas would rise — not fall. Nor were the drains in such a position that would risk having the Zyklon-B fall through. And, again, the directions from NI-9912 don't matter here.
9. You need to indicate which "Leichenkeller" you're referring to in order to answer this question.
10. Pressac says the building was not originally designed for the purpose for which it was used.
Shall I continue?
