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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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kageki said:
Well actually it is accepted that the ORIGINAL intention wasn't a "final plan".
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No, actually the intentionalist / functionalist debate continues, but no one on either side denies what actually happened.
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kageki said:
That it can be PERCEIVED that way is entirely understandable and that is also precisely the reason that a controversy exists. The question is IF it happened.
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There is no such controversy among the inform rational, nor is there any question that millions of otherwise innocent civilians were slaughtered by Nazis, for no better reason than hate.
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kageki said:
It's about the exterminations.
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Great. Then let's talk about what happened to Henio Zytomirski.
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truethat said:
Let's take this. Sugar is not intended to kill. But using the diabetic situation, if I dump tons of sugar into the camp food, knowing that it is going to kill them, can I then say "Well it was just sugar? Did you know that? Sugar, harmless little sugar. Wow I put sugar their food. That's not a bad thing now is it?"

If I put a bunch of people in a room and dump in a pesticide to kill the lice, and the whole room drops dead. Then I do it again and again and again and each time claim, "I only was trying to kill the lice, it's not my fault they all died"

Can you see why someone would think you were full of ******
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This is pure idiocy. You need to learn something about the subject before you start commenting. They didn't put clothed people in a room to delouse them. They took the clothes minus the people and put them in specially designed rooms where they were deloused. These rooms still exist at Auschwitz, but are never shown to visitors.

I surmise you are being purposefully stupid, a standard Zionist tactic.
 
truethat said:
I'm not getting you, 10 million is more staggering than 1.1. What is the number you are referring to.

I'm still not understanding why it makes a difference to you. You keep bringing up Israel which has nothing to do with what happened in Germany.

It may have resulted in people looking the other way when the Israeli army committed atrocities against the Palestinians, but that has nothing to do with what happened during the holocaust. If happened in tandem then maybe I could see your point, but the situation in Israel began AFTER WW2.

Can I explain the exact cause of death for all that died in Auschwitz? In a word, no, but in a nutshell "Poor planning and managment, lack of resources"

Ok lets say it is that.

It still doesn't change the fact that millions of Jews were rounded up for being Jewish and put in camps that were running on "death."

What difference does it make if they weren't intending to target Jews?


I posted the example about the kidnapping which I think is a good way of explaining it.

Here's another

If I round up "medical drains" on society and send them to a camp. Among those I have large numbers of diabetics. The diabetics begin dying rapidly because of the food issues. At the end 4 million diabetics died.

Does it change the fact that they died, because they were diabetic? Is it suddenly not a culpable act because none of the Nazi's realized the danger in the situation?

At what point do we get to change the train tracks to lead the carriage to "Not guilty?"
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First of all, I'm not the one who brought up Israel.

1.1 million is the figure for Auschwitz alone (which was reduced from 4 million). Wouldn't you also find the magnitude of "cleaning up" 1.1 million to be staggering? You must since you felt 230,000 would be staggering.

Well your "nutshell" isn't what is considered a cause of death. Here take a look at what a list of a cause of death looks like:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Number of deaths for leading causes of death

* Heart disease: 616,067
* Cancer: 562,875
* Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
* Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
* Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
* Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
* Diabetes: 71,382
* Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
* Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
* Septicemia: 34,828
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Saggy said:
The Jews want to exclude all non-Jews from Palestine
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Which, of course, is why a majority of both Jews (and Palestinians) support a two-state solution

No, wait -- wasn't that on the table back in '47? Please remind me, Saggy: who was it that rejected that offer?

And then we have the Camp David accords -- an obvious ploy to push all the Palestinians into sea.

And those Oslo Accords -- what a transparent attempt at genocide.
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Saggy said:
They created the holohoax to do it. They started telling holocaust lies is 1906, the New York Times was full of holohoax articles during World War I, but these lies evaporated.
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No, you still repeat the same lies.
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Saggy said:
You can read about them in 'The First Holocaust, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During World War I' by Don Heddesheimer.
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Of course, never having actually read the book in question, Saggs doesn't know that it only references *one* use of the word "holocaust", and continues to willfully ignore the very real famines to which that that op-ed piece referred.
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TSR said:
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... and who note that of the 48 camps which comprized the Auschwitz network of camps, only one was specially designed for mass murder: Auschwitz II, also known as Birkenau.
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I don't think any historian today says that Birkinau was built from the ground up as a death camp.
 
Saggy said:
The 'religious sanctity' of the land? Try the racism of the Jews. The Jews want to exclude all non-Jews from Palestine, that is the problem for sure in the middle.

They created the holohoax to do it.
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so the Jews killed more than 5 millions of their own people, just to create a state in Palestine?
 
kageki said:
You want to talk about ignorance? How many people do you think know that Zyklon B was a disinfectant?
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Actually, I think pesticide is a better term for Zyklon B. It was used to kill vermin, not germs.
 
kageki said:
Then:

How many people do you think know that Zyklon B was a pesticide?
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Okay, i have to address all your arguments to incredulity.

Your wrong. The vast majority of people with an average level of education that have done any research into the issue know this information. Just because you didn't have it, doesn't mean that is common. Your lack of knowledge is uncommon.

Don't project your personal research faults at any time in your life on the general population. This makes about as much sense as me saying because i can't throw a baseball worth a damn, that the majority of " regular joe's" can't. Which isn't true, i simply suck at throwing a baseball. I may be a " regular guy" but that doesn't mean every regular guy sucks at throwing a baseball.
 
Saggy said:
This is pure idiocy. You need to learn something about the subject before you start commenting. They didn't put clothed people in a room to delouse them. They took the clothes minus the people and put them in specially designed rooms where they were deloused. These rooms still exist at Auschwitz, but are never shown to visitors.

I surmise you are being purposefully stupid, a standard Zionist tactic.
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The evidence for truethat not being a troll just keeps mounting. Pissing off sags, is pretty much a criteria for not trollin.
 
Saggy said:
The 'religious sanctity' of the land? Try the racism of the Jews. The Jews want to exclude all non-Jews from Palestine, that is the problem for sure in the middle.

They created the holohoax to do it. They started telling holocaust lies is 1906, the New York Times was full of holohoax articles during World War I, but these lies evaporated. You can read about them in 'The First Holocaust, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During World War I' by Don Heddesheimer. As the Amazon review said, before it was pulled, "I guess they would call it 'Chutzpah', to publicly use the same big lie twice within the span of twenty or so years."
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Ok this is amusing. So your version of the story is that they created the "story" of the holocaust in 1906. And just by some chance miracle, Hitler coincidentally killed about 6 million of them and voila, fell right into their hands and sealed the deal.

Too bad it only took the killing of 6 million of em to do it.


Also it is blindingly apparent to me that some of you feel duped because you took what you were told erroneously or as "urban legend" "exaggeration" or just misunderstanding history to heart.

You know when I was in school I learned that Christopher Columbus discovered America in 1492. Golly gee don't I feel dumb when I find out now he landed in the Carribbean!

Just because you didn't educate yourselves on a topic until years later doesn't mean the rest of the world did. It truly comes across that you are gobsmacked at your own lack of education and seeking to blame the world for it.

Uh no, you guys are just uneducated and don't do well with research. Instead you just listen to what other people tell you and suck it up. You seem to be making a habit of it. ;)
 
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sadhatter said:
Okay, i have to address all your arguments to incredulity.

Your wrong. The vast majority of people with an average level of education that have done any research into the issue know this information. Just because you didn't have it, doesn't mean that is common. Your lack of knowledge is uncommon.

Don't project your personal research faults at any time in your life on the general population. This makes about as much sense as me saying because i can't throw a baseball worth a damn, that the majority of " regular joe's" can't. Which isn't true, i simply suck at throwing a baseball. I may be a " regular guy" but that doesn't mean every regular guy sucks at throwing a baseball.
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That would also include my parents then. I'll rephrase it more specifically:

How many people in the whole world know that Zyklon B was a pesticide?

Percentage wise it's most likely a minority. Nowhere even close to 50%. Having an average level of education and doing research are different things. I didn't do research on this subject because I didn't find a reason to do so. I was told the Holocaust happened and that was it to me. The point is that in the course of an average education that I didn't learn about it. The point is that a lot probably haven't done further research. Just start asking the people around you or ask random people off the streets. I don't believe for a second that many would know.
 
Thunder said:
its not very nice to call Jews, gays, Gypsies, Poles, Socialists, Democrats, and others "vermin".
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Hey Kageki, I was about to say that, in my experience, people who don't know anything about the holocaust except what they were taught in school probably have no idea what the Nazis used in their gas chambers let alone that it was called Zyklon B.

But I would have guessed that most of the people who have studied the topic enough to know that Zyklon B was supposed to have been used to kill Jews would also know that it was a pesticide that was adopted for that use. They probably think that most, if not all, of the Zyklon B that was shipped to the camps was used for killing people. But they would know that it was a pesticide.

But Thunderdude evidently doesn't know about its use as a pesticide. Or maybe he hears the word 'vermin' and immediately thinks 'Jews, gays, Democrats, Commies.' But that seems uncharacteristically anti-semitic to me. And I don't know what angrysoba was trying to say.

So anyway you were right! People really really don't know that Zyklon B was used for pest control.
 
Dogzilla said:
Hey Kageki, I was about to say that, in my experience, people who don't know anything about the holocaust except what they were taught in school probably have no idea what the Nazis used in their gas chambers let alone that it was called Zyklon B.

But I would have guessed that most of the people who have studied the topic enough to know that Zyklon B was supposed to have been used to kill Jews would also know that it was a pesticide that was adopted for that use. They probably think that most, if not all, of the Zyklon B that was shipped to the camps was used for killing people. But they would know that it was a pesticide.

But Thunderdude evidently doesn't know about its use as a pesticide. Or maybe he hears the word 'vermin' and immediately thinks 'Jews, gays, Democrats, Commies.' But that seems uncharacteristically anti-semitic to me. And I don't know what angrysoba was trying to say.

So anyway you were right! People really really don't know that Zyklon B was used for pest control.
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I just checked a representative subject, and she believes, as I think most do, that the Jews went into shower rooms and gas was pumped in through the shower heads. That is the image that I had until I studied the matter, I picked it up from a movie I had seen a lonnngg time ago. Not one person in 100 will be able to identify the gas as Zyklon. Not 1 person in 500 will know about the delousing chambers. Here's a funny illustration of how degenerate the Zionists are, how they assume that we're all complete idiots, and .... unfortunately... how right they are .... PBS did a 'documentary' on the Irving trial ... here's the web site .....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/holocaust/

where you'll read how the trial exposed flawed science ....

"Exposing Flawed Science
To back up his claim that the Nazis used Auschwitz's gas chambers only to fumigate corpses, reputed Holocaust denier David Irving relied on research that experts maintain was flawed. What exactly constitutes poor science? Get a sense in this interactive feature. "
 
Zyklon B can be used to kill humans; nearly any pesticide can, when you think about it.

.. on a side note.

See, I hate reading books about the holocaust. I read 4 through school and I got the idea the first time. (Incidently, I would like to comment: no school ever gets events on those right. I should have just ignored it but whatever..)

But on the other hand, the military and political aspects of WWII fascinate me. And any of those books ever gives you a good general understanding (And in sometimes a too good specific understanding) about the Nazi's policies re: undesirables.

So generally speaking, anyone who's done research beyond what you learn in the K-12 system (which is watered down due to the sheer mass of details you need to know in general) will understand.
 
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