Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Dogzilla]

Holocaust scholars? I'm sure they did cause they're always unfailingly correct. Yet they didn't boo it off of the Holocaust stage did they? They used it to reinforce the Holocaust lies.

'Tis a good point. It's true that some mainstream holoscholars questioned the veracity of the story. But the ratio of how incredibly ridiculous the Mischa story is to the popularity and legs of the Mischa story is mindboggling. And it's not as if the holocaust industry had no experience with fraud prior to Mischa.

It just goes to show you that there aren't any holocaust survivors testimony too stupid to be believed, at least at first. Just make sure you don't pull a Rosenblat and give your fake holocaust memoir a happy ending. You can say whatever you want about the holocaust as long as what you say sounds bad.

 

[Clayton Moore]

So you agree that your heroes, the nazis, did murder millions of Jews but that they just didn't use the gas chambers? I think that's a new one.

You purveyors of the Holocaust remind of those mind numbing infomercials that repeat BS over and over and over and over until the weak minded are mesmerized at the mere sight of a brown truck.

 

[dtugg]

You purveyors of the Holocaust remind of those mind numbing infomercials that repeat BS over and over and over and over until the weak minded are mesmerized at the mere sight of a brown truck.

Sorry, I don't speak crazy. Do care to translate that to sane?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Sorry, I don't speak crazy. Do care to translate that to sane?

Red light.

 

[beachnut]

Red light.

You have no clue how many Jews Hitler murdered, you can't come up with a number?

 

[Clayton Moore]

You have no clue how many Jews Hitler murdered, you can't come up with a number?

I already provided a maximum number of those who died from disease and starvation. The insanity, of isolating and interpreting a few statements out of trillions as a sign from the devil that Germany was intent on eliminating Jewish people from Europe by killing them, not forcing them to leave, is yours.

Really, I'd think you people would be pleased that Jewish men did not murder 3 million Jewish children, women, and men.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

Really, I'd think you people would be pleased that Jewish men did not murder 3 million Jewish children, women, and men.

If what you say were true, where did they go?

"Gerne, allzu gerne, hätte ich sie alle gekannt. Wie gerne wäre ich mit meinen großen Schwestern aufgewachsen und hätte bei meinen Freunden mit ihnen angegeben. Dieser Traum wurde vor 68 Jahren, lange bevor ich ihn überhaupt träumen konnte, im Keim erstickt." (PDF)

That's what Rob Wurms wrote before he died in March 2011.

Not only did you miss the opportunity to re-unite them -if indeed you were ever able to while he was still alive- you seem to be omitting a rather large category of perpetrators from you dishonest summary.

 

[Dogzilla]

The low life pieces of trash deny that the Holocaust happened, so they are appropriately named. I could not possibly care less that they wish to be called something they feel is more respectable.

So you agree that if there wasn't a plan to kill all the Jews, fewer than six million actually died and none of them in a gas chamber, then nothing bad happened to the Jews in the territory controlled by Nazi Germany? That's a new one on me.

 

[beachnut]

I already provided a maximum number of those who died from disease and starvation. The insanity, of isolating and interpreting a few statements out of trillions as a sign from the devil that Germany was intent on eliminating Jewish people from Europe by killing them, not forcing them to leave, is yours.
...

You can't remember the number of Jews murdered by Hitler. Disease and starvation is murder, when you are at Hitlers special vacation camps... You can't say how many were murdered by Hitler, you dodge the question.

Your hero Hitler had the goal to kill them all, and disease and starvation count. Why do you apologize for murderers? Is that a neoNAZI goal?

You can't number the murdered Jews, the ones Hitler murdered; his goal was all? Why can't you answer the easy questions?

 

[Clayton Moore]

If what you say were true, where did they go?

"Gerne, allzu gerne, hätte ich sie alle gekannt. Wie gerne wäre ich mit meinen großen Schwestern aufgewachsen und hätte bei meinen Freunden mit ihnen angegeben. Dieser Traum wurde vor 68 Jahren, lange bevor ich ihn überhaupt träumen konnte, im Keim erstickt."

That's what Rob Wurms wrote before he died in March 2011.

Not only did you miss the opportunity to re-unite them -if indeed you were ever able to while he was still alive- you seem to be omitting a rather large category of perpetrators from you dishonest summary.

When you make up a lie about 6 million being killed why would should I think they were even real people.

I'm told a lie about Jewish men killing 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men in gas chambers and I'm supposed to believe the 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men existed? Yeah sure.


Remember that story about the boy who cried wolf? Hopefully the next time the 6 million lost number is used it too will be a lie.

 

[beachnut]

When you make up a lie about 6 million being killed why would should I think they were even real people.

I'm told a lie about Jewish men killing 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men in gas chambers and I'm supposed to believe the 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men existed? Yeah sure.


Remember that story about the boy who cried wolf? Hopefully the next time the 6 million lost number is used it too will be a lie.

... how many Jews were murdered by NAZIs? Why did Hitler want to kill all of them? When did you become a neoNAZI?

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

When you make up a lie about 6 million being killed why would should I think they were even real people.

I'm told a lie about Jewish men killing 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men in gas chambers and I'm supposed to believe the 3,000,000 Jewish children, women, and men existed? Yeah sure.


Remember that story about the boy who cried wolf? Hopefully the next time the 6 million lost number is used it too will be a lie.

You can know about their previous existence by not making caricatures out of history.

Thank you for putting that in writing, though, I did know about the boy who cried wolf before but I've been reminded about it several times in recent years by people who thought themselves clever for recycling stale denier canards. For whose benefit remains a mystery to me.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post

Looks like you believe tens of thousands of Jewish men could be forced to perform genocide against millions of Jewish children, women, and men. I don't.

First of all, what you've posted above is what's called a "straw man," and you should look up what that means so that you know not to use them in your debating. It makes you look feeble.

Second, tens of thousands of Jewish men weren't necessary. Perhaps hundreds, but I doubt it went much further than Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers. Nor would I say that most of the preceding knew precisely what was going on or how to prevent it. None of them, or at least extremely few, did it willingly.

That's my fav response so far. Less than a 1000 Jewish men were Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers.

SKs manning gas chambers where, Holocaust scholars demand under penalty of LAW in much of Europe, 3 million Jewish people were killed.

 

[Clayton Moore]

In other words, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

It is perfectly obvious that if you cannot even name the 5 figure massacres then you do not know whether there were any excavations or not.

Wow. You certainly made yourself scarce whilst your cornered mates were twisting helpless in the wind.

Will I see you at the wedding on TV?

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

That's my fav response so far. Less than a 1000 Jewish men were Jewish police and Judenräten in ghettos, kapos in camps, and SKs manning gas chambers.

SKs manning gas chambers where, Holocaust scholars demand under penalty of LAW in much of Europe, 3 million Jewish people were killed.

No one in the world would have prosecuted you for finding Kaatje Wurms and re-uniting her with her brother. They were both real people. So was Erich Fuchs, the man who installed some of the machinery to kill in Sobibor.

Kaatje Wurms. In Memoriam.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

Wow. You certainly made yourself scarce whilst your cornered mates were twisting helpless in the wind.

You manage to make even Holocaust denier ******** Bingo boring. Can you at least try to make it a bit more challenging for people like Nick Terry - if that's really who you're appealing to with comments like these?
If rewriting history is truly your goal you do have to come up with something that actually addresses people like him, you know?

 

[Clayton Moore]

You manage to make even Holocaust denier ******** Bingo boring. Can you at least try to make it a bit more challenging for people like Nick Terry - if that's really who you're appealing to with comments like these?
If rewriting history is truly your goal you do have to come up with something that actually addresses people like him, you know?

http://www.debatingtheholocaust.com/chapter_1

* Key witnesses to the Holocaust have either falsified or greatly exaggerated important aspects of their stories.



* The figure of “six million” has little basis in fact. This number, which theoretically could only have been known after the war, actually traces back decades before.



* Major death camps, like Belzec, Sobibor, Chelmno, and Treblinka, have vanished “without a trace”—as have most of their alleged victims. Such a thing is not possible.



* Both of the alleged means of gassing victims—Zyklon-B (cyanide) and carbon monoxide from diesel exhaust—are impractical, unworkable, and simply ridiculous.



* No “Holocaust order” from Hitler exists; nor was there any budget or any plan. How, then, could the Nazis have pulled off their perfect crime?



* Wartime air photos do not substantiate the traditional account of events.



* Why are there, even today, so many “survivors”?

 

[LemmyCaution]

'Tis a good point. It's true that some mainstream holoscholars questioned the veracity of the story. But the ratio of how incredibly ridiculous the Mischa story is to the popularity and legs of the Mischa story is mindboggling. And it's not as if the holocaust industry had no experience with fraud prior to Mischa.

It just goes to show you that there aren't any holocaust survivors testimony too stupid to be believed, at least at first. Just make sure you don't pull a Rosenblat and give your fake holocaust memoir a happy ending. You can say whatever you want about the holocaust as long as what you say sounds bad.

This is what you are trying to use to challenge the Holocaust? It's a seriously stupid ploy. That out of all the memoirs there are some that are BS? That many members of the public, who don't know much about the Holocaust, believe dodgy memoirs while scholars, who know a great deal about the Holocaust, don't? Pathetic.

The reason why scholars don't use suspect memoirs is that they have checked many, many sources, of a variety of types, and cross-checked them and interrogated them, by which they weed out, or critique, that which won't stand up to scrutiny. Like the memory of a President of the US who recalls filming Nazi concentration camps at a time he was making Army training films stateside. Or fake heroes of Vietnam. This work goes on all the time in historical study but seems to elude deniers who fixate on single points of BS which the historians have already ignored or debunked.

Not all historians agree on every source, and their debates over such matters also help separate wheat from chaff.

None of this prevents deniers from ignoring the revisionist work of historians--to take one example, Clayton Moore keeps up with 6 million dead when most historians estimate a lower figure, for example, Hilberg calculating 5.1 million Jewish deaths--and trying to score points in their game of solitaire using sources that do not figure in the articulation of the history they deny.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I actually dont think a lot of them even dislike Jews. They just want to take an opposition position on a subject...just cause. Not unlike the Pearl Harbor CT people etc etc

Whilst this is true of Little Grey Rabbit, who has no considered position on anything except "Look at me!" I doubt it to be true of most deniers and would also add that denial, even for a rabbit, lands its adherents into a swamp of antisemitic stereotypes and gambits. Take this bit of mutual masturbation from two denier clowns on Rodoh today (I still visit that site in hopes that pooshoodog will post something, as he is not censored there), on the occasion of 20 April 2011 and the first joker's excursion to a revered site:

Clown #1:

. . . I swore an oath privately that I would never give up the fight to save my race from the Jew. . . . I look forward to Day of the Rope for all traitors of our people in Germany.

Clown #2:

. . . I wish I could have been there, alas...

As for the oath, ditto for me . . .

With very few exceptions, deniers end up accounting for the scholarly work and popular mythologies alike in the same way: the power of the Jews, of Zionism, of pro-Jewish "victors." After all, who did the hoaxing? Many deniers come to the point where they argue that the Jews and their allies hoaxed the thing, creating counterfeit documents, tarting up OSRs, forging diaries, writing outrageous memoirs, lying on the witness stand, planting incriminating evidence into files, and so on. Further, deniers are as likely to wind up arguing a confused point about Jewish overrepresentation in Weimar Germany and that "something had to be done" as they are to interject into debate over the Holocaust other irrelevant twaddle about Bernie Madoff, Jews running Hollywood, or Israel's contemporary policies.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

Asked for new material, Clayton Moore decides to post smelly fish with a deceptive label: http://www.debatingtheholocaust.com/chapter_1
-or to give credit where it is due - identified in 2009 as:
Old Herrings in a New Can: Thomas Dalton’s Debating the Holocaust (1).