Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[beachnut]

Can he come up with the number of Jews he thinks Hitler murdered? Got math?

Yes? No? He is going to post in, one, two...

 

[Clayton Moore]

Mueller is a classic. He opens his book with a scene in the yard where he has reported for Sunday morning roll call. The kapo plays a sadistic game with the prisoners, in which 30 are clubbed to the ground dead. A newcomer protests, he is clubbed dead. Mueller's next line has to be quoted .... "Although by now we were exhausted we stood in line behind wooden tea vats. The tea should have been served early in the morning and was now stone cold."

I read somewhere that a survivor said he survived 5, 9, 11, whatever number camps because of his labor skills. Was that Mueller?

 

[VonKleist]

Well, it suggests to me that you are not interested in honestly debating anything whatsoever, and are here merely to troll. All I am doing is pointing is pointing this out to my fellow posters.

True. But there will always be people willing to engage littlegreyrabbi in good faith, however much a waste of time that is.

 

[Clayton Moore]

At just six years old, Misha Defonseca trudged across three countries to try to find her Jewish parents who had been carted off to Auschwitz by the Nazis. She collapsed in a forest but was rescued by pack of wolves who adopted her as their cub.

Her story became the best-selling Holocaust autobiography, Misha: A Memoir of the Holocaust Years. The only problem? It was not fact, but fiction.

So many fools believed her story that 10 years after the book came out a movie was made.

 

[TSR]

.
And so we see once again the quality of denier 'scholarship': "I read 'somewhere' (nunno where that 'somebody' (nunno who) survived (nunno how many) camps (nunno which, nunno if they were camps where mass executions were carried out), and this disproves that the Holocaust ever happened.

Because! I! Said! So!
.

 

[MG1962]

So many fools believed her story that 10 years after the book came out a movie was made.

Strange you dont mention it was Holocaust scholars that raised doubts before the book was even released. But that does not suit your dishonesty to admit...does it

I guess your in the same, making stuff up club as Saggy

 

[MaxMurx]

First: Define "Holocaust-Denier". Take myself as example. I work in research. During the last years many cases of fraud had been detected. I was in 2 commissions investigating scientific fraud. I wa

 

[Clayton Moore]

Strange you dont mention it was Holocaust scholars that raised doubts before the book was even released. But that does not suit your dishonesty to admit...does it

I guess your in the same, making stuff up club as Saggy

Holocaust scholars? I'm sure they did cause they're always unfailingly correct. Yet they didn't boo it off of the Holocaust stage did they? They used it to reinforce the Holocaust lies.

 

[MG1962]

Holocaust scholars? I'm sure they did cause they're always unfailingly correct. Yet they didn't boo it off of the Holocaust stage did they? They used it to reinforce the Holocaust lies.

http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2001/10/31/incredible_journey/?page=full

Guess again genius

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2001/10/31/incredible_journey/?page=full

Guess again genius

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Guess what?

The book drew high-profile endorsements by Leonard P. Zakim, late director of the New England Anti-Defamation League (''a scary must-read for anyone interested in the Holocaust''); journalist/historian Padraig O'Malley; and Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel (''very moving'').

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Guess what? Nothing about the wolves?

Two renowned Holocaust scholars told the Globe they do not believe her story. They say it's impossible for one child to have been everywhere she says she was, to have witnessed all she did.

Maybe she crossed the Rhine by riding one of the wolves.

''It's preposterous,'' says Lawrence L. Langer of Newton, author of numerous books on the Holocaust and considered by many the preeminent authority on survivor narratives. Langer says a woman -- he can't remember who -- called him about ''Misha'' to get his view of it.

''She sketched the story and I said, 'Don't do it,''' he recalls. ''She said, 'Why not?' I said, 'because it isn't true.' I said, 'Ask her how she crossed the Rhine, in the middle of the war, when the SS is guarding the bridges at both ends. Find the Elbe on a map and ask how a little girl goes across that river. She speaks no German, she's Jewish, poorly dressed, and no one says, 'Who are you, little girl?' I said it's a bad idea, don't do it, it will prove an embarrassment.''

So your two renowned Holocaust scholars were okay with the wolves?

 

[dtugg]

Do Holocaust deniers understand that normal people recognize them to be the low life pieces of crap that they are?

 

[MaxMurx]

The rest:

Define "Holocaust-Denier". I work in research. During the last years many cases of fraud had been detected. I was in 2 commissions investigating scientific fraud. I was shocked to learn how I had underestimated the problem (compare at: htt/ori dot hhs dot gov/). Then one day (2 years ago) I was in the US on a scientific meeting. Right beside my hotel was a WWII museum. Just the day I had reserved to visit the place, some WWII veteran's world congress was held there, in which I felt uncomfortable (as native German). I checked the internet site of the museum and came upon a German "original" document on display. In short it was peppered with grammatical and linguistic mistakes a first grader could have been fired for from classes for. No embarassent was left out in the text. However it was presented as an official letter of some eastern administrative high ranked officer to the Führer himself. I wrote them a mail listing those mistakes, assuming it to be a counterfeit. There is no dishonesty in having one dud in a collection of documents, ask any director of an art galery. For two weeks I didn't receive a reply. One day when I checked the site, 35 of the 50 worst mistakes had been removed - from the alleged original document on public display. Since then I am doublechecking all "proofs" which are presented to me. What I experienced since then can only be described with: "sometimes I am not sure to be in our reality or in a nightmare or if I am still alive and on this planet". At least I've learned what the word "abyss" was created for. You don't even need to search very long.
Dead bodies on page 1 of this thread. You might read before: entomology.montana.edu/historybug/typhus-conlon.pdf
or another of the hundreds of papers about epedemic typhus. The famous acts of "camp liberation" by allied troops in Germany 1945 consisted mainly of closing the gates and blocking the inmates from escaping. The conditions in fact were abhorrend, but they were due to starvation and caused by typhus (one very simple logic: victims of the genocid are said to be selected on the ramps after leaving the trains and then gased immediately. There is no obvious reason to look so starving as those victims on the pictures.). Thousands died from typhus ,even after those famous "camp liberations" . That does not at all mean, there was no holocaust. It says, the proofs probably are misleading the people. But that was the beginning. Go to the famous and already quoted: english wikipedia holocaust

We pass the "arian blood discussion" and don't discuss Buck vs. Bell, US Supreme court 1927, we pass the picture "German policemen torturing jews", which shows Hungarian custom officers and one German soldier laughing at somebody, lying at the ground for some unknown reason, and make a first stop at the picture of the 20.000 victims of Nordhausen. Those were foreign labourers, partially on paid contracts but most of them were slave laborers, bad enough, but they were alltogether killed by an air raid of the British Royal Air Force on Nordhausen; in which the city and its inhabitants disappeared too. The foto displaid here is taken from the documentation of that air raid. Is this document adequate here?

The next picture is: "child dying on the street of Warsaw ghetto". Very sad picture of course, but does anybody notice the three healthy children in the background, carrying something looking like a lunch-bag? Why don't they care or share what they have? Is that normal child's behaviour? Couriosity alone would have drawn them to take a closer look. I am assuming they were told to keep off by danger of infecting themselves with the disease of the child. That again is not "denying holocaust" but it is the concern of not ignoring public health problems of that time.

Take the next picture, called: "Execution of Kiev Jews". Take the highest resolution. 1.: The shooter in no way is aiming at the persons in the middle. 2. There is a person on the ground, probably shot dead, directly next to the feet of the shooter 3. all other persons take cover with their backs to the shooter.
That never is an execution. That is an ambush, with the shooter and the persons in the centre as the targets.
I know two locations where the picture is also presented as a German atrocity, the dead body on the ground being erased from it. In addition at low resolutions you cannot see other details. Here for me the border between cheating and fraud was passed. A fraud not being funny,

Next is: Jews captured and forcibly pulled out from dugouts by the Germans ....... Take the high resolution, look at the man with the gun. Although in the beginning of the some Germans had "Schmeisser MP 18/1" submachine guns, which were everything but common, but looked similar to the gun of the man, in 1944 the standard of the Germans was the "P 38" or "P 40", which looks completely different. The Schmeisser MP 18/1 came out in 1917 and was a weapon of WWI, which was produced in 10.000 pieces at the start of WW II. British parachute toops in 1944 had the "STEN Mark II", which to my opinion IS the gun the man has in his hands. And even if it cannot be ruled out by 100% that a German special unit commander in 1944 is using a WWI submachine gun from 1917, there is no obvious reason to wear a Polish helmet, as the German M35 has another typical shape. Much worse: he would have been in danger to be shot at by his own troops.

What am I now? Claiming correct documentation and the erasure of fabrications and counterfeits: does that make me a denier? Accusing anyone in the world to have killed 6 million human beings, does this charge not deserve adequate documents to be presented? Keep in mind: that is one page only which I took as an example and not aqll pictures were discussed. Is anybody afraid that there will be nothing left for documentation when all fraud is removed?
Then in fact we have a problem. That could be prevented by silencing "deniers", but it shouldn't.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Do Holocaust deniers understand that normal people recognize them to be the low life pieces of crap that they are?

You do realize there are no Holocaust deniers. There are however Holocaust revisionists.

If a moderator reads this would they please change the title of thread from General Holocaust denial discussion thread General Holocaust revisionist discussion thread

 

[dtugg]

You do realize there are no Holocaust deniers. There are however Holocaust revisionists.

If a moderator reads this would they please change the title of thread from General Holocaust denial discussion thread General Holocaust revisionist discussion thread

The low life pieces of trash deny that the Holocaust happened, so they are appropriately named. I could not possibly care less that they wish to be called something they feel is more respectable.

 

[MG1962]

Do Holocaust deniers understand that normal people recognize them to be the low life pieces of crap that they are?

No they see themselves as martys. All they have to do is sit back and grumble about stuff and let others do the research. Thats why no significant contribution has ever been made (With the exception of Irving and the Hitler diaries) by any of them

They dont seem to understand Holocaust researchers have as much of a vested interest in showing up hoaxs as anyone - When shown such evidence of diligence they resort to prissy outbursts such as above from Clayton.

I actually dont think a lot of them even dislike Jews. They just want to take an opposition position on a subject...just cause. Not unlike the Pearl Harbor CT people etc etc

 

[Clayton Moore]

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Guess what?




Hmmmmmmmmmm. Guess what? Nothing about the wolves?



Maybe she crossed the Rhine by riding one of the wolves.


So your two renowned Holocaust scholars were okay with the wolves?

No they see themselves as martys. All they have to do is sit back and grumble about stuff and let others do the research. Thats why no significant contribution has ever been made (With the exception of Irving and the Hitler diaries) by any of them

They dont seem to understand Holocaust researchers have as much of a vested interest in showing up hoaxs as anyone - When shown such evidence of diligence they resort to prissy outbursts such as above from Clayton.

I actually dont think a lot of them even dislike Jews. They just want to take an opposition position on a subject...just cause. Not unlike the Pearl Harbor CT people etc etc

Little old for dodge ball aren't you?

 

[MG1962]

Little old for dodge ball aren't you?

Yes Clayton that is the only possible answer to your error - hope it the ball didn't hit you in the face

 

[Craig4]

You do realize there are no Holocaust deniers. There are however Holocaust revisionists.

If a moderator reads this would they please change the title of thread from General Holocaust denial discussion thread General Holocaust revisionist discussion thread

Why would reasonable person want to do something as dishonest as give you and your kind legitimacy?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Why would reasonable person want to do something as dishonest as give you and your kind legitimacy?

Who denies the Holocaust happened? Not I. Nor did Eisenhower, Churchill, or de Gaulle; however, they all believed as I do, that there were no gas chambers. That means the fact that Holocaust scholars demand be believed, 3 million Jewish children, women, and men were killed in gas chambers by Jewish men, is a prevarication.

 

[dtugg]

So you agree that your heroes, the nazis, did murder millions of Jews but that they just didn't use the gas chambers? I think that's a new one.