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Fyziks 101

The plumes rise only in relation to themselves. They are being forced outward, thus must climb up and over the perimeter columns tp escape the arriving debris from above. But, because the perimeter columns are yielding to that oputward force and falling away from the structure, the entire mass is still moving, over-all, downward. What you should notice is the generally homogeneous nature of the plumes viewed from the top. There are no smaller objects being ejected out through the plumes. Thus, it has to be all gravity-driven, with no explosives present.
 
You all don't seem to know the internal network of steel in the Twins apparently?

Remember the massive 47 steel core columns? That is not air...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc_core_large.jpg
http://www.wtc7.net/store/books/wakingup/samples/docs/p2/site1099c.jpg

What about the 200+ outter columns?
http://www.positiontoknow.com/S-11/img/exterioroftowers7yr.jpg

On and... this is all gravity :rolleyes:

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg

Thank you. By invoking the columns, you make my point for me. As I said, the columns failed at the points they were joined at. That's why the upper segment never faced the lower segment as a whole, but rather by sections defined by where the columns joined. The columns absorbed the forces put upon them by the progressing failures in the fire zone until they reached the breaking point at those points they joined. That section would fail, and the whole upper segment plus the newly failed section would impact the section below. And so on, and so on, until the ground was reached.

That's why I said what I did in the post you're responding to: It is improper to think of the overall system as a smaller block impacting a bigger block. Ignoring the fact that those are completely solid all the way through, the fact is that the upper section is indeed larger than the floor immediately below the collapse initiation zone. And the upper section plus that floor is bigger still than the floor two down from the initiation zone. You draw an incorrect analogy when you draw a small block impacting a bigger block, or say things like "a truck hitting a freight train", or "one truck slowly bending into two stronger trucks". Both are incorrect modelings, neither properly model the Twin Towers on 9/11.
 
I saw that.

It is also worthy to note that Turbo is also into Judy Wood territory.
Although Turbo does not say anything about Directed Energy Weapons, he uses the same logic of using still pictures to show upward and lateral ejections when the videos show no such thing.

The only difference between the two of them is that she uses the picture to prove "dustification" and Turbo is using it to prove explosions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...judy+wood+interview&ei=tFyMSL-LJJGg4ALft4SVDA
 
http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg

What difference does it make where I link the photos from? The funny thing
is, nobody really studies the photo.

Look at the remaining tower. Look above the remainin tower.

What do you see?

I see dust getting blown up and away (gravity :rolleyes:)

I see pyroclastic cloud formations

I don't see any large sections of building needed to push down and crush
the remaining tower

I don't see the 47 central core columns sticking up out of the dust cloud

Where is the large section of tower above the impact zone guys?

It is scientifically impossible for both sections to be breaking apart upon descent
simultaneously with a gravity induced collapse.
 
Turbo, just going outside the thread for a moment, I'm curious. What is your area of professional expertise? I'm only asking because every time you post you make an arse of yourself.

Bananaman (who knows all about make an arse of himself, which is why he's daunted by such nascent talent.)
 
... I see pyroclastic cloud formations ...

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Could you spell out for me the etymology of the word "pyroclast"? and explain how this relates to what is shown in the photograph.
 
http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg

What difference does it make where I link the photos from?

In this case, none, really....


The funny thing
is, nobody really studies the photo.
"Funny thing is," this is such irony. Judging by this response you never bothered to look at the videos of the same scene whilst the collapse was in progress. Photo analysis isn't your strong suite either is it?


Look at the remaining tower. Look above the remainin tower.

and what? It never crossed your mind that dust is capable of blocking the view? Shame you don't take that into account.


What do you see?
I see a collapsing building :rolleyes:


I see dust getting blown up and away (gravity :rolleyes:)

Just a suggestion, get contacts ;)
and get off the video games! D:<

The dust is being sucked down behind the collapse front, not exploding upwards as you pretend.



I see pyroclastic cloud formations
The abuse... of this word... is ridiculous... please stop... there is no volcano in Manhattan, the world trade centers were not volcanic



I don't see any large sections of building needed to push down and crush the remaining tower

Same as the third response from the top.


I don't see the 47 central core columns sticking up out of the dust cloud
LINK 1
LINK 2
North tower^^

South tower core

Say what now?


It is scientifically impossible for both sections to be breaking apart upon descent simultaneously with a gravity induced collapse.
Why is it? Since you seem to be quite the physicist could you explain to the uneducated folk who apparently do not have the knowledge you possess why this is impossible?
 
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"Funny thing is," this is such irony. Judging by this response you never bothered to look at the videos of the same scene whilst the collapse was in progress. Photo analysis isn't your strong suite either is it?

Actually yes, something else you overlooked. There are still photos
(stop frame analysis) of the collapse linked in the original post.

Nice try.


and what? It never crossed your mind that dust is capable of blocking the view? Shame you don't take that into account.

And when the dust clears, there's nothing :rolleyes:

We shuold be seeing about 1000 feet of core column structure there at
that point in the collapse.


The abuse... of this word... is ridiculous... please stop... there is no volcano in Manhattan, the world trade centers were not volcanic

No volcano, but here are explosives.

Ask yourself why you don't see the pyroclastic flow as the building is
smoking....before collapse? Think about it.

LINK 1
LINK 2
North tower^^

South tower core

Say what now?

LMAO! That spire 'fell' straight down into itself LMFAO! How does that
happen?!


Why is it? Since you seem to be quite the physicist could you explain to the uneducated folk who apparently do not have the knowledge you possess why this is impossible?

Why don't you try it for yourself.

Grab four bricks. Stack three of them end to end.

Get your video camera rolling...

Take the fourth and throw it down onto the three stacked bricks.

Observe the damage, and notice the debris left over.

Also be aware that you are throwing the brick much faster than free fall,
so the impact force will be much greater.
 
["It is scientifically impossible for both sections [of the towers] to be breaking apart upon descent simultaneously with a gravity induced collapse."]

Why don't you try it for yourself. Grab four bricks. Stack three of them end to end. Get your video camera rolling... Take the fourth and throw it down onto the three stacked bricks. Observe the damage, and notice the debris left over. Also be aware that you are throwing the brick much faster than free fall, so the impact force will be much greater.


That's science, baby! Stundied (before anyone beats me to it!)
 
Why don't you try it for yourself.

Grab four bricks. Stack three of them end to end.

Get your video camera rolling...

Take the fourth and throw it down onto the three stacked bricks.

Observe the damage, and notice the debris left over.

Also be aware that you are throwing the brick much faster than free fall,
so the impact force will be much greater.


What, other than the approximate shape, is similar between a WTC tower and a stack of three bricks?

Or are you claiming that similarity of shape is sufficient to guarantee similar collapse dynamics?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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And when the dust clears, there's nothing :rolleyes:

We shuold be seeing about 1000 feet of core column structure there at that point in the collapse.


So, this is it, huh? This is your delusion? You actually believe that the core columns should have remained standing while the rest of the tower was shredding itself? What kind of magic would prevent the core columns from being affected, at all, by what's going on around them?

No volcano, but here are explosives.


That still makes the use of the word "pyroclastic" stupendously incorrect. WHy do you think explosives are the magic ingredient that makes mere dust a "pyroclastic flow"?

I think you're just engaging in more of that simple-minded it-is-what-it-looks-like nonsense, which is quite ironic coming from an individual who falls within a loose community that's well known for their "things are not what they seem" mantras.

Ask yourself why you don't see the pyroclastic flow as the building is
smoking....before collapse?


Because it wasn't a volcano before the collapse, either.

LMAO! That spire 'fell' straight down into itself LMFAO! How does that
happen?!


Actually, they shifted to one side before collapsing.

Why don't you try it for yourself.

Grab four bricks. Stack three of them end to end.

Get your video camera rolling...

Take the fourth and throw it down onto the three stacked bricks.

Observe the damage, and notice the debris left over.

Also be aware that you are throwing the brick much faster than free fall,
so the impact force will be much greater.


Can you next describe to us how smashing two Matchbox cars together proves that the debris field caused by the real-life collision of two similar vehicles is in fact a bald-faced lie by our government, and that it was all just a setup using explosives?

Vroom! Vroom! Kur-pow!
 
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Yep, Alt, I'm laughing. Embarrassment isn't one of Turbo's failings.

Ask yourself why you don't see the pyroclastic flow as the building is
smoking....before collapse? Think about it.

Just one quibble about the comedian's unusual use of words. Will you give it up on the volcano analogies, Turbo? Please? They're not doing you any favours.

Bananaman.
 
This thread has to be a joke!

Pyroclastic flow?

Smashing bricks?

Beams ejecting up?

This guy is obviously taking the good people of JREF for a ride...no one, and I mean NO ONE is this stupid!

Edit: My wife wants to know if you need help contacting your magic unicorn spirit?

She's concerned!
 
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Is anyone else laughing as hard as I am right now?

No. I shed a silent tear of desperation.

A long time ago here I posted about debating against another person's glands. I'd picked up the actual quote from elsewhere, but the gist was that when you engage in vigorous debate against strongly held - but totally erroneous - beliefs you are not facing your opponent's intellect, you're debating against their glands. Something very basic, reptilian almost. Something buried in the brain's most ancient and primitive structures. The need to survive, perhaps. The need to eat today, or the need to reproduce .. the need to fight off enemies ... something like that. In the face of such fundamental forces science and logic stand no chance.

These twoofer folks have virtually zero interest in science. Confront them with science and it merely strengthens their categorisation of you as the enemy. They are fighting off monsters that live only in their minds. Or something. I dunno for sure, but there are definitely glands involved.
 
Actually yes, something else you overlooked. There are still photos
(stop frame analysis) of the collapse linked in the original post.

There is also video which has posted repeatedly to walk you through the behavior of the dust cloud. Do we have to take baby steps to help you understand such a very simple concept? Apparently you can't put two in two together, are you that desperate?


Nice try.
Yes, nice try, but attempting to convince people of the behavior of the dust cloud based on a single still photo is quite laughable. :D
I'm wondering if you'll ever look at them in sequence frame by frame...



We shuold be seeing about 1000 feet of core column structure there at
that point in the collapse.

The core columns were designed strictly for gravity loads, they were never intended to stand freely. You clearly have no sense of why they braced them laterally in the first place.

Here's an experiment for you, buy a box of legos and try to stack a single column as high as you can without bracing it. I can guarantee that after about a foot and and a half you'll have a fun time trying to add more without buckling that column.

This is the same principal that faced the towers. Of course, you're a 'legendary' physicist who claims to understand the physics involved. If you think I'm wrong, I'll give you some equations relevant to column design so you can do a representative comparison to see if you're right. While I may not be able to give exact values relevant to the towers themselves the equations I have will suffice more than enough to explain the general concept you continue to miss.


No volcano, but here are explosives.
Your claim, your burden of proof. Give us a reason to believe that your explosives are powerful and at the same time small enough to not only be hidden prior to the event but capable of hurling large sections of the towers upwards of 300 ft in any lateral direction.

Also show me an example of a controlled demolition where the demo charges generated the majority of the dust. You've set the bar... good luck

Ask yourself why you don't see the pyroclastic flow as the building is smoking....before collapse? Think about it.
Yes, why don't you apply some critical thinking skills to this? Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the building at this point is not collapsing, perhaps because the towers aren't volcanic islands as your pyroclastic flow has been grossly applied to the wrong context.


LMAO! That spire 'fell' straight down into itself LMFAO! How does that happen?!

Remember that lego experiment I told you about? A layman should be capable of trying that experiment and understand the context in the most basic terms. Of course if you'd like I can give a representative equation with math included that will explain the concept to you better. Pick and choose, which would you prefer?

Why don't you try it for yourself.
Grab four bricks. Stack three of them end to end.
Get your video camera rolling...
Take the fourth and throw it down onto the three stacked bricks.

Observe the damage, and notice the debris left over.

Also be aware that you are throwing the brick much faster than free fall,
so the impact force will be much greater.

As Myriad so elegantly put it, aside from the resemblance in the approximate shape what is similar between your bricks and the twin towers? This is a perfect example of where your standard of physics has failed. Just like Richard Gage tried to represent the towers as empty cardboard boxes, and Jones tried to compare one acre floors of concrete 4-inches thick (concrete component) to a cinder block. There is an analogy I like to use to put these into perspective.

The Hercules Beatle can carry up to 800 times its own weight, imagine a 200-pound person attempting to carry 800 times his own weight. The person is clearly stronger than the beatle on the order of many magnitudes but the beatle is far stronger than the man in the in the area discussing the ratio of the weight it can carry compared to how much it itself weighs.

In your experiment the brick is the beatle, and the tower is the person.
 
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