Fyziks 101

[tsig]

mumble mumble
goalposts.. goalposts ..mumble know they were here...
Are we in the stadium yet?

are we playing Football, soccer, Australian football, or baseball? Just whereinhell are we headed, here?

We are playing Calvinball.

 

[rwguinn]

We are playing Calvinball.

HA! You forgot the Yogi Berra mangling of a Tommy Lasorda statement.
Face down and look at the sky!

 

[GlennB]

You can't even give a reasonable explanation for the core columns throughout your guessing.

Large amounts of both lower core areas remained standing after the primary collapse zones (mostly floors and outer columns, but including a good deal of upper core structure) hit the ground.

Both 'remaining' cores - deprived of all of their external lateral support, some of their internal support, and impacted and damaged lower down by massive amounts of falling debris - then eventually collapsed. As they were bound to do sooner or later.

Hope that helps.

 

[nicepants]

It goes back to that whole "path of least resistance" thing that you truthers never seem to understand.



You mean, a hole the size of an airplane has more resistance than a window?

No. But the window provides less resistance than the solid wall surrounding it.

You are telling me that the air is going to build pressure against the window
and 'jet' out before it equalizes the volume adjacent?

It depends on how much and how fast the pressure increases, the amount of pressure that the window can withstand, and the resistance encountered by said air in traveling towards the other opening.

That is not the path of least resistance!

Of course it is...there is more resistance to the air traveling 208 feet across the building to the larger hole than there is going through the open window.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Of course it is...there is more resistance to the air traveling 208 feet across the building to the larger hole than there is going through the open window.

Air behaves according to the principles of fluid mechanics. It is not an electrical current. It does not follow the path of least resistance. It has mass, and thus inertia and thus behaves according to laws of motion (i.e. will keep travelling in the same direction unless a force acts on it. Force = Mass *Acceleration) etc etc with some additional interesting effects not seen in solid body mechanics such a vortex shedding, turbulent flow rates depending on Reynolds Numbers, etc etc.

Please don't fall for Truther "path of least resistance" idiocy.

 

[nicepants]

Air behaves according to the principles of fluid mechanics. It is not an electrical current. It does not follow the path of least resistance. It has mass, and thus inertia and thus behaves according to laws of motion (i.e. will keep travelling in the same direction unless a force acts on it. Force = Mass *Acceleration) etc etc with some additional interesting effects not seen in solid body mechanics such a vortex shedding, turbulent flow rates depending on Reynolds Numbers, etc etc.

Please don't fall for Truther "path of least resistance" idiocy.

Thanks, well said. I was going to try to describe an analogy involving water but decided I didn't want to deal with the inevitable "water is not a gas!" response from TF.

ETA: Putting 2 unequal holes in either side gallon of milk will result in milk spilling out both sides, not just the side with the larger hole.

 

[X]

Really? Then what force broke that core apart? It would obviously need
some sort large mass to squish it down vertically within seconds.

Well there's your problem!

Who said anything about the core section being "squished down vertically"?
No wonder you're so confused.

Poor little truther.



The force is gravity.
You want to test how it can collapse a vertical structure?
Get some lego. Build a column as high as you can using the 4-peg square bricks.
Watch what happens when it fails.

 

[Matthew Best]

Well, who are you going to believe? The truthers, or NIST?

Yes, that is a difficult choice.

 

[beachnut]

I think you should take a class or two:

You just stated that the upper section hitting the floor(s) below ACCELERATED?

Once again, the floors have nothing to do with this!!! It's not a pancake
collapse! Columns are connected inside and out! You should learn how
the tower is actually constructed.

The floors could pancake down all day long, but you still have the core
to deal with.

You can't even give a reasonable explanation for the core columns throughout
your guessing.

Part of the core is standing, and all the floors are in a pile! Did you miss something? I made a simple model based on weight and my model matches the actual time most the mass hit the ground, 12.08 seconds. Do you believe in thermite, explosives and missed the fact two planes speeding did the damage to the towers and they fell?
Part of core still standing. just core.

I cheated, I am an engineer, the collapse as seen makes sense to me, and I confirmed my work with others independent of NIST, the 9/11 commission, Dan Rather, and I also researched relentlessly to understand the man who designed the STRUCTURE. He said this is how the building would come down in fire failure with 7 to 11 times the impact damage he had designed the building for.

Alas, do you read, do you do research,? Or are you filled with false ideas based on who knows what, and fail to make rational conclusion on 9/11? Why do you believe in the truth movement, failed ideas a bunch of liars selling DVDs to idiots?

The floor may not pancake, but they hit each other at the about the time I gave you based on physics, using a simple momentum model and confirmed by video and the time of the collapse reaching the ground.

If you paid attention you know the cores took 20 to 30 seconds to completely collapse, so your core can stay, it is the floor being destroyed by the weight above that leaves the core bare, and the mass also destroys parts of the core as it goes. The core can not stand without the floors attached to the shell. A floor can only hold 25,000,000 pounds and they fail, as soon as the mass on one floor as the top fell, reached 25,000,000 pounds that floor failed and hit the next floor with more than 25,000,000 pounds and the race ends 12.08 seconds at the ground, the remaining core collapses due to lack of support. Of course we have massive steel shell coming off in 3 floor sections and core columns doing the same adding to the mass on the floors and destroying each other in a the race to release the 100 TONS of TNT energy just due to GRAVITY! GRAVITY is the biggest energy source in all CDs too. After you have over 11 floors failing, GRAVITY drives the rest of the destruction!

With lack of knowledge comes gullibility, you have been fooled, you lack experience in many fields that could be useful for avoiding the ignorance of the truth movement lies. Try physics, engineering, and flying.

Do you know what one floor structure weighs with all the junk on it? Do you know what an average floor cross-section weighs on average, with core and shell included?

These are the thing you need to do a momentum model. It is amazing how a simple model based on weight and momentum at each floor, matches the time of the falling towers.

BTW, what was your theory on the towers falling?

The actual reason the towers fell are aircraft impacts 7 to 11 times greater than design was for, impact knocked off fire protection on steel and destroyed the fires suppression systems, 66,000 ponds of jet fuel ignited fires on many floors at the same time, large office fires continued till the building fell, and the steel was subject to high temperature weakening it. Then the tower collapsed. It takes about 11 floors, plus a pound, to overcome the structure below and have what we see on 9/11.

Were you the one using car and bus analogies for the WTC? That was funny.

 

[Corsair 115]

Air behaves according to the principles of fluid mechanics. It is not an electrical current. It does not follow the path of least resistance. It has mass, and thus inertia and thus behaves according to laws of motion (i.e. will keep travelling in the same direction unless a force acts on it. Force = Mass *Acceleration) etc etc with some additional interesting effects not seen in solid body mechanics such a vortex shedding, turbulent flow rates depending on Reynolds Numbers, etc etc.

Speaking of air, there was an interesting piece on the show Daily Planet which runs on Discovery Channel Canada.

It was about this facility in Australia where they are doing research work on scramjet engines. To recreate the ultrasonic airspeeds needed to test different engine intake designs, they were using air under high pressure in a steel tube, an air cannon of sorts. A massive piston rapidly compressed and heated the air until it punched through a steel plate, thus yielding a (very short duration) blast of air at the necessary speed and temperature that flowed past a stationary model of the intake.

To be specific, a steel plate two millimetres thick had a sizeable hole punched through it by nothing more than air.

 

[Mancman]

Right...300 ft of tower is missing before the support structure descends.

It's clearly shown in the video, and still frame photos linked in the first post.

You are a liar. Or completely insane.

Look at the drivel that constitutes your argument and entire movement. The 'support structure' is quite obviously being torn to pieces by the GPE of the top section. Why would you try and lie about a directly observable event?

 

[pomeroo]

Well geez, we all better run outside soon because our houses are
going to fall from gravity!

What a freakin' laugh this is...

Okay, we get the idea that you are a rock-headed ignoramus who is impervious to facts and reason. Now, how does making a horse's ass of yourself help to promote your evil cause?

 

[Minadin]

Thanks, well said. I was going to try to describe an analogy involving water but decided I didn't want to deal with the inevitable "water is not a gas!" response from TF.

ETA: Putting 2 unequal holes in either side gallon of milk will result in milk spilling out both sides, not just the side with the larger hole.

And, if the smaller hole is lower in the gallon jug than the big hole, it will squirt out faster, and for longer.

But, I have thought of a good water based 'analogy' we can describe.

Let's pretend that a 15,000 gallon (60,000 litre) water balloon smashed into the building you're in right now at 500 miles per hour. (800 kph) Maybe it was shot out of a giant cannon by reptilian jews from outer space or something. How well do you think that building would hold up? What would the damage be like? How would that be different if it was filled with kerosene instead of water?

 

[Bananaman]

No malice intended, but after all this nonsense I think it's evident that what Turbofan needs more than anything is psychotherapy, particular focusing on his ego problems (Napoleon complex or something similar, I'll leave it to the experts to determine) and his paranoia.

This would do him a hell of a lot more good in the short term than sticking him in a physics class where he can leer and drool at the back drawing weird pictures in his folder while squinting at the teacher thinking he knows more than she does.

Bananaman.

 

[jaydeehess]

Again with this DROPPED BS!

The upper section did NOT drop upon 'initiation' of collapse.

Everything was connected by core and perimeter columns!

Again with the complete misunderstandiing of the structre and what was happening or a wilfull ignorance.

While the columns were losing strength due to heating the buiklding twisted and sagged and the loads on those columns were redistributed to other, less affected columns. However as the fire spread and more columns were affected there came a time when the load being redistributed could no longer be held by the remiaining columns and they all buckled and bent under the load in very quick succession.

THEN, post initial collapse, the upper block was essentially falling upon the FLOORSPACE of the next level and thus rather than the mass of the upper block being distributed to the columns it was ripping the floor trusses away from the perimeter and core columns and,,,, you can review my previous posts,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Mr.D]

ego problems (Napoleon complex or something similar, I'll leave it to the experts to determine) and his paranoia.

Hmmm ... Attention seeking by the deliberate act of inflicting idiocy on others ...

Anyone want to propose Munchausens by idiocy for inclusion in the next DSM?

 

[tsig]

HA! You forgot the Yogi Berra mangling of a Tommy Lasorda statement.
Face down and look at the sky!

Kick dirt on the umpire score 15 points. Only in the fifth inning of a tie game.