From Rapture Ready

[Roadtoad]

What is truly disturbing is how sin has ruined this world, this is why Christians long for heaven because we know it will be perfect, no more pain, war, suffering or evil of any kind. When you look at this world doesn't it seem obvious that it is perishing? Wars and rumurs of wars just as scripture says but the end drawing nearer each day. (Christiand know this)

The end of the story is Jesus wins, Satan loses but people either listen to Jesus or they are of their father the devil. It truly is black and white when it all comes down to the question,"Where do you want to spend eternity?" People who deny Christ send themselves to hell. This is what Christians are warning you not to do, you have to make that descision yourself.

As for the Op it's a burden we Christians must bear to try to reach our loved ones for Christ but it takes God doing something supernaturally in each person to make them open to receive him. I say we will never stop praying for the lost as we hope God will save them too. If God can save me I know he can save anyone.

First of all, learn to spell, dammit.

Second, how dare you? You have repeatedly shown yourself to be one of the most hateful, arrogant, self-centered posters on this board. Your whole attitude is one of self-righteousness, "Look at me! I'm so holy, suffering for Jesus as I'm witnessing to those horrible atheists at JREF!"

Oh, please. You demonstrate time and again why no one in their right mind would listen to the blather of Rapture Ready, (and yes, I've read it, and it's far more disturbing than anything you can imagine), and why it's so repugnant to the rest of us.

At what point, Kathy, do you GET IT?

When I was a believer, I used to pray to God that if my actions were an affront to the lost, if I did anything that might cost another person their salvation, that I would be the one sent to Hell, not them. What, pray tell, in your actions or words indicates that kind of willingness to accept your responsibilities for your actions? Nothing, from this vantage point; you're simply here to look good for your fellow "believers" back home.

At NO POINT have you really read the Bible. If you had, you might have realized that the point of the Book of Revelation was that God is victorious in the end. There are people enduring far worse than anything listed in the Book of Revelation, some of them doing so for the sake of Christ. It has NOTHING to do with a coming "Rapture," and that the whole business of a "Rapture" is simply one more way for certain "Christians" to avoid their very public (and very real) responsibilities in this world. "See? I don't have to help shelter the homeless, or feed the hungry. There's wars and rumors of war, and all kinds of natural disasters. JESUS is coming soon, and so I'll just sit here on my ass and wait for him to take me home."

It's a pant-load. You ignore the realities that in centuries past, Christians built hospitals, schools, shelters, farms, and they served their communities with humility and gratitude. You, on the other hand, come here and bleat your "sermons," ignoring the damage you do to your own testimony, (which is a frigging crock), and the damage you do to the long-respected history of Christianity's service to the nations. You become an embarrassment to groups such as Voice of the Martyrs and Open Doors.

Let me tell you something: I've actually met Brother Andrew, (the author of God's Smuggler.) He's one of the gutsiest men I've ever met, and someone I respect, and will respect, as long as I live. He doesn't talk the Gospel, he lives it. His actions are not just centered on preaching the Bible, but on working for the civil liberties of ALL people. His concern goes far beyond converting people to Jesus, but making sure they can live in liberty. It extends beyond one particular belief system. His actions are designed to help all people, because if he only helps those who agree with him, what value is there to his words and his work?

That, Kathy, is called INTEGRITY. You have none. Why should we listen to you when you have insulted us, when you have degraded us, and when you insult with your words and actions the Christian family members we love? You humiliate people we respect with your constant riff about salvation, something you have clearly no interest in seeing anyone here achieving. I honestly think you'd be groovin' on the notion of watching us drop into the Lake of Fire, one by one. That's a sick piece of business, if you ask me, (not that you did.)

Your words might have carried some weight at one point, but not in the past couple of years. Your actions have shown you lack anything resembling compassion, courtesy, or courage. If anything, you've shown your words to be nothing more than waste, (and that's being polite).

I'm tired of reading your continual rambling about a God of whom you know nothing, and have even less interest in learning about. This is some sort of power trip for you, and it's insulting to continue to read this blather from you.

Do yourself a favor: Just once, read the Bible, the whole way through, and do it on your own, without someone coaching you. Think for yourself, for once in your life.

And at the very least, start acting like a Christian.

 

[Ralph]

When you look at this world doesn't it seem obvious that it is perishing? Wars and rumurs of wars just as scripture says but the end drawing nearer each day. (Christiand know this)


I wonder how an individual born in Western Europe around 1300 or so would feel about this.

About the time he was turning from a child into an adult--he'd get hit with a bit of catastrophic climate change. The Medeival warm period suddenly changing into the Little Ice age.

This of course led to massive crop failures and The Great Famine. Millions died.

If he got through this & got a little older...he'd get to see the start of the Hundred Years War. A bloody mess....mostly Christians slaughtering each other over whose brand of Christianity was the "right" one.

Then--to top it off---the Black Death.

Current estimates are this killed (in a horrible painfull way) anywhere from 45-50% of Europe's population.

Some cities & towns though lost up to 80-90% of their population.

War-famine-pestilence- and death. All on scale that makes what's happening in our present day look like a vacation.

700 years later though--we're still here.

No rapture...no jesus...no end of the world. We're still here.

Such a waste--squandering the life you've been given here for the empty promise of heaven.

 

[MIKILLINI]

What is truly disturbing is how sin has ruined this world, this is why Christians long for heaven because we know it will be perfect, no more pain, war, suffering or evil of any kind. When you look at this world doesn't it seem obvious that it is perishing?

Of course the world looks that way, because it's the only one you are programmed to see from your Godbot view.

 

[six7s]

Christians long for heaven because we know it will be perfect

No

You believe

BIG difference

When you look at this world doesn't it seem obvious that it is perishing?

No

It seems obvious that life is flourishing from the equator to the poles, from 1000s of metres above and below sea level

Where have you been looking to conclude that the planet is perishing?

"Where do you want to spend eternity?"

You don't get a choice

You are going to die

Die as in 'be dead'

Dead as in 'ashes to ashes, funk to funky'

If God can save me I know he can save anyone.

You know nothing of the sort

You believe a whole bunch of crap

 

[kurious_kathy]

KK, perhaps you could quote the specific Bible verses that support the popularly held concept of the Rapture as understood by modern evangelicals such as yourself.

Okay here's one verse that comes to mind,

1 Corinthians 15: 51 -53 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

and here's another reference in scripture that seems even more clear about there is most certainly a rapture that will happen.

1 Thes. 4:13-18 The Coming of the Lord
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

 

[Hokulele]

And from the previous chapter...

1 Cor 14:34-35: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.



Nice.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Of course the world looks that way, because it's the only one you are programmed to see from your Godbot view.

Jesus is the only one holding this world together and once he's ready to come back and judge this world he will let it all burn and then remake it. A new heaven and earth is what he has promised us and I know this is exactly what he will do. Heaven and earth will pass away but Gods word will last forever! You can count on this because God keeps his word.

 

[Hokulele]

Jesus is the only one holding this world together and once he's ready to come back and judge this world he will let it all burn and then remake it. A new heaven and earth is what he has promised us and I know this is exactly what he will do. Heaven and earth will pass away but Gods word will last forever! You can count on this because God keeps his word.

Do you understand the real reason that letter to the Thessalonians was included in the New Testament? Paul was writing to those who were concerned that Jesus hadn't returned "in this generation" and people were dying without being Raptured. Since it was clear that the original prediction was wrong, Paul had to make up some nonsense to cover for the original mistake.

And people are still falling for it.

 

[kurious_kathy]

And from the previous chapter...

1 Cor 14:34-35: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.



Nice.

Okay Hokulele in the church of Corinth there were some big issues that Paul needed to address as they were getting a bit out of sinc as to the Holy Spirits leading and teaching. The women needed to be reminded to respect mens authority(and we still do today) which is the hierarchy that God has put in place. Jesus is the head of the church and men are right under him in authority and then women. We women can be deaconess's in a church but not a pastor as that is Gods way. What's important in Christianity is we learn to submit to the Lord and the way he ordaines things. The man is still called to be the head of the household and the spiritual leader for his family too.

 

[Hokulele]

Okay Hokulele in the church of Corinth there were some big issues that Paul needed to address as they were getting a bit out of sinc as to the sprits leading and teaching. The women needed to be reminded to respect mens authority which is the hierarchy that God put in place. Jesus is the head of the church and men are right under him in authority and then women. We women can be deaconess's in a church but not a pastor as that is Gods way. What's important in Christianity is we learn to submit to the Lord and the way he ordaines things. The man is still called to be the head of the household and the spiritual leader for his family too.

Which I find to be a completely despicable practice. A culture that cannot accept the fact that all people should have equal opportunity is one I have absolutely no interest in.

Your god is an ass.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Do you understand the real reason that letter to the Thessalonians was included in the New Testament? Paul was writing to those who were concerned that Jesus hadn't returned "in this generation" and people were dying without being Raptured. Since it was clear that the original prediction was wrong, Paul had to make up some nonsense to cover for the original mistake.

And people are still falling for it.

Paul did not make anything up, he shared the message he was given and just because the rapture hasn't happened yet does not mean in any way that it won't. I do believe the rapture is the next big event on God's calender and then the 7 years of tribulation on earth will begin. Woe to those who are going to go through the great tribulation. I say choose Jesus now to taste and see that the Lord is good, and to avoid the great tribulation which is getting closer each day!

 

[Hokulele]

Paul did not make anything up...

Either Paul made things up, or Luke did in writing Acts. Have you ever noticed how those two accounts are extremely contradictory regarding Paul and his actions?

 

[kurious_kathy]

Which I find to be a completely despicable practice. A culture that cannot accept the fact that all people should have equal opportunity is one I have absolutely no interest in.

Your god is an ass.

No God is good. Just because he gives men authority over women does not mean he does not see us as equals. Women have a different role in life than men. We are just as important to God as men are.

 

[MIKILLINI]

A new heaven and earth is what he has promised us and I know this is exactly what he will do. Heaven and earth will pass away but Gods word will last forever! You can count on this because God keeps his word.

How do you know? Where is the compelling evidence that gives you such assurance?

 

[kurious_kathy]

Either Paul made things up, or Luke did in writing Acts. Have you ever noticed how those two accounts are extremely contradictory regarding Paul and his actions?

Different authors may have different ways of explaining things, but I do not notice any real contradicitions. Are you referring to any specific verses?

 

[Hokulele]

No God is good. Just because he gives men authority over women does not mean he does not see us as equals. Women have a different role in life than men. We are just as important to God as men are.

Really? So an equal is basically told to sit down and shut up? An equal is told they can never hold any position of authority?

My husband and I are equal partners in our marriage. There is no "head of the household". Any decision requires both of our approval, not just his. We have learned how to compromise rather than submit. In my professional life, I have owned my own company for the past 12 years, and all final decisions affecting the business are mine and mine alone.

Like I said earlier, your god is an ass.

 

[Hokulele]

Different authors may have different ways of explaining things, but I do not notice any real contradicitions. Are you referring to any specific verses?

Was Paul accepted by the church in Jerusalem or not? Did he get along with James or not?

Have you even read Acts and Paul's epistles?

Well, the ones that are generally believed to have been written by Paul and not the known forgeries.

 

[kurious_kathy]

How do you know? Where is the compelling evidence that gives you such assurance?

God Word is the evidence, he said it, and I believe it. Gods word brings life into a persons soul if they let the Holy Spirit in you just know it's all true. I can't put it more plainly than this. God's Word is alive and active and brings life to all who call on the name of Jesus. He's the one that needs to show you the way.

 

[MIKILLINI]

God Word is the evidence, he said it, and I believe it. Gods word brings life into a persons soul if they let the Holy Spirit in you just know it's all true. I can't put it more plainly than this. God's Word is alive and active and brings life to all who call on the name of Jesus. He's the one that needs to show you the way.

You mean this God? For instance: Exodus 34:6, Deuteronomy 7:9-10, Titus 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.

But....then there is this:

2Thessalonians 2:11-12 God deludes people, making them believe what is false, so as to be able to condemn them. (Note: some versions use the word persuade here. The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

You know these passages?

 

[slingblade]

No God is good. Just because he gives men authority over women does not mean he does not see us as equals. Women have a different role in life than men. We are just as important to God as men are.

I can clearly see now, Kathy, that you truly do love your neighbor every bit as much as you love yourself. And that's a damned shame.