Four Shot Outside Teddy Haggard's Church

Try the bolded part. Nice run at a cheap shot, Lisa.

Just who constitutes "religious folks?" Care to elaborate, or is the tar from your brush sticking your hands together?

Scrut: glad it provided you with some amusement.

DR

What bolded part?

Who constitutes religious folk? People who are religious. And as for the tar comment, I'm actually against this kind of attack after this kind of tragedy. I think it gives atheists a bad name. But thanks for making huge assumptions about me and whether or not my hands are coated with tar.
 
What bolded part?

Who constitutes religious folk? People who are religious. And as for the tar comment, I'm actually against this kind of attack after this kind of tragedy. I think it gives atheists a bad name. But thanks for making huge assumptions about me and whether or not my hands are coated with tar.
Snort, I scarooed up the tags, not sure how. I went back and fixed it. What I had done was [/b]Praying for their souls?[/b] instead of Praying for their souls?

Thanks for clearing up your intent, it was not obvious from your post.

DR
 
For what it is worth, I think that it is a pretty ****** thing to gloat over someone being murdered soley because you have a different view of the world than they do. No better than a deist finding smug satisfaction over an atheist being killed by a whack job. I hope their families can find some peace after this horrible event.
 
I'm facinated that the church had an armed security gaurd. It never would have occured to me that a church security gaurd would be armed. Why? Is this happening a lot?

The church increased its security that morning because of the two missionaries shot earlier that day.
 
It wasn't an actual security guard, but a church member with her personal weapon volunteering as one. She rushed the armed attacker too. Most likely prevented the planned much greater slaughter.
 
I'm facinated that the church had an armed security gaurd. It never would have occured to me that a church security gaurd would be armed. Why? Is this happening a lot?


Why? Because of the threats made against us Christians, our leaders, and our churches.

Yes, it happens "a lot," but that depends on what you mean by "a lot." About 40 years ago, the only guards needed to warn off vandals and hecklers were deacons armed with intimidating looks and janitors armed with mops. Now that Christian leaders are getting death threats, that vehicles displaying Christian symbols are being vandalized (even in church parking lots), that churches are being set afire, and that church members are getting robbed and beaten (again, even on church property) armed guards during religious services are becoming more commonplace.

Most folks in my church see armed guards as a deterrent -- someone whose visible presence tends to discourage gang members from loitering around the church building (unless they want to come inside and worship with us, of course). This is especially important when one considers how many children and retirees attend church, how many of the former are easy targets for assault, and how many of the latter carry cash meant for the offering.

There is something about being a Christian that makes other think that we are weak and inviting targets for violence and other crimes. Some say there is no war against religion in general, and no war specifically against Christianity. Okay, don't call it a "war." Instead, call it a "Criminal Action." Either way, we have the Constitutional right to defend ourselves.

Including the Right to Bear Arms.
 
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Why? Because of the threats made against us Christians, our leaders, and our churches.

Yes, it happens "a lot," but that depends on what you mean by "a lot." About 40 years ago, the only guards needed to warn off vandals and hecklers were deacons armed with intimidating looks and janitors armed with mops. Now that Christian leaders are getting death threats, that vehicles displaying Christian symbols are being vandalized (even in church parking lots), that churches are being set afire, and that church members are getting robbed and beaten (again, even on church property) armed guards during religious services are becoming more commonplace.

Most folks in my church see armed guards as a deterrent -- someone whose visible presence tends to discourage gang members from loitering around the church building (unless they want to come inside and worship with us, of course). This is especially important when one considers how many children and retirees attend church, how many of the former are easy targets for assault, and how many of the latter carry cash meant for the offering.

There is something about being a Christian that makes other think that we are weak and inviting targets for violence and other crimes. Some say there is no war against religion in general, and no war specifically against Christianity. Okay, don't call it a "war." Instead, call it a "Criminal Action." Either way, we have the Constitutional right to defend ourselves.

Including the Right to Bear Arms.

Ah, classic Christian martyr complex, just in time for the holidays.
 
When the expiration date has passed.


This thread makes me wonder - what would the religious folk be saying if a mentally ill person shot up an atheists meeting? Would they be mocking the victims? Or blaming them for being godless heathens? Praying for their souls? All of the above?

I am sure the nice believers would be praying for the atheists' souls. Just before they start gloating about how the atheists are in hell now, and fantasizing about all the gory punishments the atheists are receiving.
 
When the expiration date has passed.


This thread makes me wonder - what would the religious folk be saying if a mentally ill person shot up an atheists meeting? Would they be mocking the victims? Or blaming them for being godless heathens? Praying for their souls? All of the above?

I think the appropriate place to look would be abortion clinic bombings. These were not condoned by mainstream churches, and when I was in church and this came up, people generally said it was a horrible thing that shouldn't have happened, but there did always seem to be some kind of dark undertone that was on the order of "it shouldn't have happened, but I'm not completely upset that it did." I don't remember ever hearing jokes about it, at least not in church. I think only the crazy extremists were willing to glorify it, and I didn't know them. I haven't ever met a pastor who would want abortionists killed.

On the other hand, when Steve Gould died, there were creationists who said things like, "God has finally taken him from the world." I think there may have been people who would be willing to kill evolution proponents (see the Dover trial).

Would Christians rejoice if a bunch of atheists died? I don't think so. There are too many good people amongst Christians. Even the leaders, like James Dobson, are very humane people (albeit homophobic). I think the response would amount to sadness because it would be a tragedy, and it would be mixed with comments about, "isn't it sad that they didn't know Jesus."
 
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=3231641
The deadly shooting sprees at a megachurch and a missionary training school were believed to have been carried out by the same person — a 24-year-old suburban Denver man who "hated Christians," a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, identified the gunman as Matthew Murray

Seems a bit unprofessional of the police officer, and the reporter to make such a claim.
 
Seems a bit unprofessional of the police officer, and the reporter to make such a claim.

The claim might have some very good evidence behind it. If he sent hate mail to the church and then went there to massacre as many parishioners as he could, then I don't think it's a stretch to say that he "hated Christians".

It was perhaps irresponsible for the police officer to make a statement, even off the record, based on what he had read from the letters. But the claim itself is probably justified.
 
This thread is an example of the kind of thing that won't hasten the day when an atheist can openly run for president. As Curdog pointed out, gloating over some people's murder isn't going to help the atheist cause.
 
When the first shooting happened, I turned to my wife and said, "I hope it wasn't an atheist." I guess it's too early to be relieved, but if he does turn out to be an atheist, at least he was a home-schooled Fundie atheist.
 
When the first shooting happened, I turned to my wife and said, "I hope it wasn't an atheist." I guess it's too early to be relieved, but if he does turn out to be an atheist, at least he was a home-schooled Fundie atheist.

The first shooting wasn't far from my house. My first concern was for some of my neighbors that attend that church.

I figured the killer had to have been involved with one of the victims or the ministry. The building where it happened is on a back street and not exactly an obvious target for an attack by a zealot trying to make a statement.
 
The guy was a member of the church. Another member thanks god for helping her kill him.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10/colorado.shootings/index.html

The weird thing is that the shooter's father was also a fundie AND a neurologist...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071210/ap_on_re_us/church_shootings;_ylt=Am9aUUMvASh9DFec1iDCa38DW7oF

How could he not realize his kid was mentally ill?
And what kind of neurologist is a fundie?

That doesn't compute. Incompetence on both counts.

But god gets the credit for something... none of the blame... I'm sure someone will blame secularism somehow... watch... or maybe demons... --they're all over the place now since those durn secularist kicked (the omnipresent) god out of schools.
 
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