Flu Flim Flam's First Victim

Rouser2 said:
In the great Swine Flu panic of the 70s, if nobody had gotton the flu shot, there would have been zero deaths and paralysis from it.
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And if there were never any treatments given for malaria, dehydration, broken bones, bacterial infections, or car accidents the rate of deaths from treatment would be zero as well.

And if we closed all hospitals entirely, the rate of deaths in hospitals would go to zero.

What exactly is your point?
 
ThirdTwin said:
Are you seriously interested in answers to these questions? Because, I can answer every single one of them without some silly, half-baked, crackpot theory not supported by anything other than wild conjecture. Or, is this just more rhetorical posturing? Please tell me before I waste my time.

-TT
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The answer to the very first question would be a good start:

So where then did the victims pick up the viral RNA??? Is it just possible, possible they picked it up from innoculations? Yes or no?
 
rppa said:
And if there were never any treatments given for malaria, dehydration, broken bones, bacterial infections, or car accidents the rate of deaths from treatment would be zero as well.

And if we closed all hospitals entirely, the rate of deaths in hospitals would go to zero.

What exactly is your point?
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Pretty simple; fairly obvious, that is, one should never blindly trust authority especially when it comes to issues of one's own health or the health of loved ones. In all medical matters, one should make it one's business to weigh all options, to consider all biases, to give some weight to tradition, past experiences, and even gut feelings before blindly accepting what some figure of authority claims is "science," especially in view of the frequency of past medical debacles based on such claims. In other words,
THINK TWICE.
 
Vaccines were indeed available and anti-typhoid vaccinations were required
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Thank you Rouser. The link you posted only talks of a single typhoid vaccine (an inactivated preparation for oral administration) but this is hardly the mass vaccination against a whole slew of diseases mentioned in the whale article. It's highly unlikely that you would get influenza virus from a killed bacterial preparation in answer to your question to TT.
 
alfaniner said:
Oh, too bad.

The above was edited before I could quote it --

it said "THNIK TWICE ".

Perfect.
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thinktwice.com is a notorious anti-vaccination website. I smell deep, delicious irony.
 
Capsid said:
Thank you Rouser. The link you posted only talks of a single typhoid vaccine (an inactivated preparation for oral administration) but this is hardly the mass vaccination against a whole slew of diseases mentioned in the whale article. It's highly unlikely that you would get influenza virus from a killed bacterial preparation in answer to your question to TT.
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"unlikely" is one of the non-quantitative terms used in the Modern Medical lexicon which has no quantitative meaning -- just like the words "rare," "very rare," and "extremely rare." No one really knows what was in those vaccines. Have vaccines ever been known to have been contaminated? Is the Pope Catholic? There are still raging arguments that AIDS was first introduced via the polio vaccine.


Fact is, it could have happend. One way or another. And what should be of interest to a medical detective is the timeline of the beginning (1914) and the end (Spring of 1918) of WW I, and the beginning (spring of 1918) of the mild form of Spanish Flu and the raging pandemic (fall of 1918). Could soldiers innoculated with whatever, have come home only to become passive carriers? Seems to me it's in the realm of possiblitiy especially in face of the fact that nobody really seems to know where this alleged virus came from.
 
Rouser2 said:
The answer to the very first question would be a good start:

So where then did the victims pick up the viral RNA??? Is it just possible, possible they picked it up from innoculations? Yes or no?
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How about this - the answer to your question is not only "no" it's impossible for them to get the influenza RNA from the vaccines... unless... there was cross-contamination, shared needles, innoculation via respiratory droplets from the person admininstering the other vaccines (i.e., she/he had the flu and coughed on the person receiving the vaccine), etc.

So, to answer your question flatly: no, under normal conditions it is not possible to get the virus as you suggest. Now, if you want to divagate away from the principle of Ockham's razor and put forth wild suppositions as "Dr. Whale.to" has done, I guess anything is possible (just like little green men coming down from the sky bringing purple unicorns). But, probable? Even remotely likely? And, given such mass numbers affected. No, I don't think so.

Somehow, methinks that answer is still not going to be good enough for you though.

-TT
 
Rouser2 said:
"unlikely" is one of the non-quantitative terms used in the Modern Medical lexicon which has no quantitative meaning -- just like the words "rare," "very rare," and "extremely rare."
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If this were the case, then you'd have a few people affected, not the hundreds of thousands (and millions in other parts of the world) that were.

(see my previous response)

-TT
 
Rouser2 said:
"unlikely" is one of the non-quantitative terms used in the Modern Medical lexicon which has no quantitative meaning -- just like the words "rare," "very rare," and "extremely rare."
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Uh, no, rouser. The "modern medical lexicon" borrowed the language from the sciences, who borrowed it from the statisticians. The terms are not "non-quantitative," but are "fuzzy." The exact numbers being alluded to vary to some degree with the context.

Don't try to smear linguistic imprecision as conspiratorial. Neither try to pin it on medicine as if it is uncommon, unusual in the sciences, or otherwise indicative of an evil empire. Save this crap for paranoid woos.
 
I use the term unlikely as I can't give you an exact figure, no one can. I thought you might appreciate my honesty in admitting that there is a possibility but it is of low probability for the reasons I gave.

We do no where the pandemic viruses originate from; this is by recombination of human and animal viruses. Horses could be a likely source since these were in great numbers during the Great War and were in close proximity to large numbers of troops.
 
Originally posted by ThirdTwin [/i]


>>How about this - the answer to your question is not only "no" it's impossible for them to get the influenza RNA from the vaccines... unless... there was cross-contamination, shared needles, innoculation via respiratory droplets from the person admininstering the other vaccines (i.e., she/he had the flu and coughed on the person receiving the vaccine), etc.
So, to answer your question flatly: no, under normal conditions it is not possible to get the virus as you suggest. Now, if you want to divagate away from the principle of Ockham's razor and put forth wild suppositions as "Dr. Whale.to" has done, I guess anything is possible (just like little green men coming down from the sky bringing purple unicorns). But, probable? Even remotely likely? And, given such mass numbers affected. No, I don't think so.
Somehow, methinks that answer is still not going to be good enough for you though.

Oh, the answer is just fine. Even though you don't include every possiblity such as animal tissue contaminations. But what you are saying is that under 'normal" conditions, it is not possible... but what you are really saying is that it cannot happen, unless it happens. Shall we bring up the history of vaccine contamination? And how the "abnormal" so frequently is the norm???? Even without little green men from the sky and purple unicorns???
 
Rouser2 said:
Shall we bring up the history of vaccine contamination? And how the "abnormal" so frequently is the norm???? Even without little green men from the sky and purple unicorns???
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"so frequently" is one of the non-quantitative terms used in the woo lexicon which has no quantitative meaning -- just like the words "rare," "very rare," and "extremely rare."
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A taste of your own alt medicine.
 
Benguin said:
In other words, your only chance of being spared 'flu is herd immunity ...
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I can't RELY on that.

And guess what - I got the flu this year, didn't I.
 
Originally posted by Eos of the Eons


The flu season started early this year.
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It may be a little soon to announce that. There is always some sporadic offseason activity, and CDC and LCDC show flu at low levels across both the US and Canada at the end of week 40. One thing for sure, it's going to start. Wash, wash, wash those hands!
 
That's not my opinion. That is the "official" opinion of the persons involved. Read the article. The flu season started earlier this year. People started getting sick sooner.
"Because this came so early, no one had a chance to be immunized yet...

most outbreaks don't hit until November or December, Johnson said.
"
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Read the reference before making your conclusions. I did.
 
Originally posted by Eos of the Eons


That's not my opinion. That is the "official" opinion of the persons involved
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I respectfully suggest that you misinterpreted what was said. In saying "Because this came so early", the person was referring to the specific incident, and did not imply that this meant the flu season had started early.
Read the reference before making your conclusions. I did
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Actually, as I indicated in my last post, I did a lot more than that (being in the high risk category makes this a topic of special interest to me, so I always do). This isolated incident may signal the beginning of the season, and then again it may not. The "official" position is that flu levels are still below seasonal baseline.
 
Isolated incident....hmmm, didn't think of it that way. The seniors just caught the flu, nobody that came in contact with them passed it on to them? I find that a stretch of the imagination. :p :D
The "official" position is that flu levels are still below seasonal baseline
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Where is this at? I'm not singling you out here. I ask this of everyone that posts "official" business without letting us know how you know (left feeling like I'm in the dark).
October is early for the flu season to begin, but he says the flu started early last year, too.
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http://www.kpax.com/Global/story.asp?S=2437364
 
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