anonimouse
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2004
- Messages
- 316
Rouser2 said:
In other words - "there are selective quotes that if taken out of context prove my theory." I would be more skeptical of a paper if it didn't consider all sides of the issue.
In other words - "there are selective quotes that if taken out of context prove my theory." I would be more skeptical of a paper if it didn't consider all sides of the issue.
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
Rouser2 --
when you are lying on the couch in a couple months, groaning, moaning, and unable to move, with every muscle aching from coughing so hard, you are going to be saying,
"Dang, wish I'd gotten that flu shot..."
when you are lying on the couch in a couple months, groaning, moaning, and unable to move, with every muscle aching from coughing so hard, you are going to be saying,
"Dang, wish I'd gotten that flu shot..."
Sure it is, rouser. The difference is that (1) nurses and doctors actively monitor for reactions and (2) are asked to report any suspected adverse reactions to the VAERS system. This is not, then, a "absence of evidence" situation, by an "evidence of absence" situation.Rouser2 said:
Zep said:
So why the misquote, Rouser? Did you need to exaggerate your claim with more nonsense?
As Zep said, this is typical of people who realise they have a weak opinion. You wonder why people here are so tired of your arguments...
Because we've seen it all before; hit and run postings where nothing is seriously argued, but multiple thread-bare proposals are made containing intangible connections between the claim and what is proposed as evidence.
This one has to be the lamest though. I'm teaching immunology in school at the moment, and had a discussion about immunisation, talking about herd immunity. Most of the kids were outraged that parents did not vaccinate.
I love being a teacher.
Athon
rastamonte
Thinker
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2004
- Messages
- 146
Capsid said:
My wife complains about chlorine in our drinking water. That is one of her reasons for drinking bottled water (another reason being flouride, I think.)
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2003
- Messages
- 15,410
BillHoyt said:
How is it a fallacy? Look at the facts:
1.I have never had the flu or the flu shot.
2. People I have known who got the shot ended up getting the flu.
3. In my experience, the flu shot has a bad track record.
Now, please point out the fallacy.
Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2003
- Messages
- 13,749
Lesseee, chlorine or microbes that can kill you...I'll take the chorine, and yeah, you can get filters or bottled water that has gone through a filter.
Unless anybody can suggest a safer way to make sure our water is clean when it comes through the tap.
Unless anybody can suggest a safer way to make sure our water is clean when it comes through the tap.
wave a magnetically aligned crystal over the tap?
I'm all for flourine ... I don't see what the beef is about that.
I actually react to chlorine (in a swimming pool context) but tap water has no effect, there is hardly any there, and if you want rid of it it is as easy as pouring a jug full and leaving it in the fridge a few hours for the chlorine to evaporate. So I'm told. Forgive me if I just woo-ed ...
I'm all for flourine ... I don't see what the beef is about that.
I actually react to chlorine (in a swimming pool context) but tap water has no effect, there is hardly any there, and if you want rid of it it is as easy as pouring a jug full and leaving it in the fridge a few hours for the chlorine to evaporate. So I'm told. Forgive me if I just woo-ed ...
Originally posted by athon [/i]
>>So why the misquote, Rouser? Did you need to exaggerate your claim with more nonsense?
As Zep said, this is typical of people who realise they have a weak opinion. You wonder why people here are so tired of your arguments...
Alas, there was no misquote. You don't know what you are talking about.
>>This one has to be the lamest though. I'm teaching immunology in school at the moment, and had a discussion about immunisation, talking about herd immunity. Most of the kids were outraged that parents did not vaccinate.
Yeah, well be sure to tell them all about the history of Flu vaccinations -- and the guess-work contents of each vaccine. And be sure not to skip the Swine Flu fiasco in the US. Then have some discourse on just how it is that people can be so easily conned.
>>So why the misquote, Rouser? Did you need to exaggerate your claim with more nonsense?
As Zep said, this is typical of people who realise they have a weak opinion. You wonder why people here are so tired of your arguments...
Alas, there was no misquote. You don't know what you are talking about.
>>This one has to be the lamest though. I'm teaching immunology in school at the moment, and had a discussion about immunisation, talking about herd immunity. Most of the kids were outraged that parents did not vaccinate.
Yeah, well be sure to tell them all about the history of Flu vaccinations -- and the guess-work contents of each vaccine. And be sure not to skip the Swine Flu fiasco in the US. Then have some discourse on just how it is that people can be so easily conned.
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
Tony:
Sorry, but they're right. An N=1 sample is meanignless. Just because .01% of the population doesn't get the flu or the shot ( or .1%, or 1%, or even 10%) does not mean that the shot does not help. Even in those cases where people develop flu-like symptoms after recieveing the shot, they are of shorter duration and lower intensity than if they had gotten the flu.
If we're going to rely on personal experience, I can shoot your argument down. I've been a medic in the military for several years. It's a requirement for servicemembers to get the flu shot every year. The latest was for our COmpany in Iraq (about 200 people). Those who got the flu shot did not get the flu, and only one of the flu-shot group got ill at all (a minor, single-day illness that passed quickly). We had some who did not get the shot due to being away on missions or medical reasons. We had three of those catch the flu, which developed into pneumonia, with one requiring hospitalization twice during the course of illness.
Of course, even my sample of 200+ people who were operating in similar conditions at the same time is not statistically significant. That was the point people were making. Your experience does not encompass a large enough sample of the target group to be a reliable guide. Neither does mine. It is exactly the same as claiming a blue rock works as a tiger repellant, because none of the people you know who carry blue rocks have ever been attacked by tigers. It's also similar to claiming that a red shirt attracts lightning, because a person you knew got struck by lightning while wearing a red shirt.
Sorry, but they're right. An N=1 sample is meanignless. Just because .01% of the population doesn't get the flu or the shot ( or .1%, or 1%, or even 10%) does not mean that the shot does not help. Even in those cases where people develop flu-like symptoms after recieveing the shot, they are of shorter duration and lower intensity than if they had gotten the flu.
If we're going to rely on personal experience, I can shoot your argument down. I've been a medic in the military for several years. It's a requirement for servicemembers to get the flu shot every year. The latest was for our COmpany in Iraq (about 200 people). Those who got the flu shot did not get the flu, and only one of the flu-shot group got ill at all (a minor, single-day illness that passed quickly). We had some who did not get the shot due to being away on missions or medical reasons. We had three of those catch the flu, which developed into pneumonia, with one requiring hospitalization twice during the course of illness.
Of course, even my sample of 200+ people who were operating in similar conditions at the same time is not statistically significant. That was the point people were making. Your experience does not encompass a large enough sample of the target group to be a reliable guide. Neither does mine. It is exactly the same as claiming a blue rock works as a tiger repellant, because none of the people you know who carry blue rocks have ever been attacked by tigers. It's also similar to claiming that a red shirt attracts lightning, because a person you knew got struck by lightning while wearing a red shirt.