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FLT 77 Flight Recorder Data - Pilots for Truth

wtcconspiracy said:
What part of Minetas testimony says he ordered the jet to be shot down.....there was no order to shoot the jet down....or it would have been....

Ben
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The 9/11 Commission report. Pages 36-37, 42-42. Have you read them?

Then from Mineta's testimony:
MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.
MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.
MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.
MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.
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So, your evidence that there was a stand-down order is...?
 
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wtcconspiracy said:
I think if you read the post properly you would see it was in response to another post...If you took the time to go back to that post you would then see the poster mentioned DNA on BODY parts.....I was referring to that....How could you actually think I meant DNA testing on airplane parts....oh and by the way i didnt say airplane parts.....I said PARTS......this meant.....BODY......
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So you always refer to hands or feet as body parts?
 
wtcconspiracy said:
One thing I will say is. Yes there are witnesses who saw a large american airlines plane hit pentagon....But there are some who saw a small private jet....With a plane flying as low as flt 77 was can the two really be mistaken....
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Here's a little project you can do:

First, create the list of witnesses to the crash at the Pentagon and list their statements as to what they saw. Second, of the ones who say they saw what they thought was a small private jet, find out how far away they were from the Pentagon when the impact happened, and their exact location in relation to where the impact occurred.

It should be noted there's a difference between someone who watched the impact directly and those who only caught the event in their peripeheral vision.
 
wtcconspiracy said:
See the thing is why all the secrecy about the tapes then. Why not just show them and shut everyone asking up....There is very little evidence of a plane hitting the pentagon....There must have been one clear video showing the plane crash....if in fact there was a crash.....
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This is classic conspiracist "logic". Since the video you want to see never existed in the first place, you'll never allow yourself to be convinced that it isn't being suppressed. Can you explain to me how you can deduce the existence of a video that would show a clear view of flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, given that we have already seen the videos from the two cameras best placed to observe the crash and both of them, for thoroughly understandable reasons, give images which are so unclear as to be very difficult to deduce anything from?

And if your argument is based on the premise that there must have been security cameras positioned to get a good view, can you please explain why anyone would need security cameras to cover a section of wall containing no doorways, only blastproofed windows that don't open? What possible threat would these cameras have been protecting against? Theft of turf from the Pentagon lawn?

wtcconspiracy said:
One thing I will say is. Yes there are witnesses who saw a large american airlines plane hit pentagon....But there are some who saw a small private jet....With a plane flying as low as flt 77 was can the two really be mistaken....
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Something like 103 witnesses claim they saw a large airliner, and two claim they saw a small airliner. The two who say they saw a small airliner were IIRC about two miles from the Pentagon. How good is your estimation of scale at a two-mile distance? Allow for the possibility that those two witnesses misjudged the scale of what they saw, and your "evidence" is gone. And there's a good reason why they would have misjudged that scale: the speed of the airliner. Generally we're only used to seeing airliners close to the ground during takeoff and landing, when they're travelling at relatively low speeds - less than half the speed flight 77 was travelling at impact. When the brain is looking for visual clues to assess the scale of an object, speed can be one of them; the time the object takes to cover its own length is a good marker. However, if your estimate of speed is off by a factor of two, so will your estimate of the object's size be; so a distant observer, assuming that the plane is travelling at under 200mph rather than over 500mph, will perceive the airliner as much smaller in order for the speed to look right.

That may sound complicated, but this is the sort of rule-of-thumb estimation that the brain can do subconsciously. Even yours.

Dave
 
WildCat said:
The 9/11 Commission report. Pages 36-37, 42-42. Have you read them?

Then from Mineta's testimony:


So, your evidence that there was a stand-down order is...?
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Bumping so wtcconspiracy can present the part of Mineta's testimony where he claims a stand-down order.
 
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WildCat said:
Bumping so wtcconspiracy can present the part of Mineta's testimony where he claims a stand-down order.
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The Part where the young guy kept coming in the room saying plane was 50 30 10 miles out.....and then asked cheney do orders still stand and cheney whipped round and said of course orders still stand have you heard anything to contrary....now this could only mean an order not to shoot down plane as if it was an order to shoot down plane then it would have been shot down.....

ben
 
wtcconspiracy said:
The Part where the young guy kept coming in the room saying plane was 50 30 10 miles out.....and then asked cheney do orders still stand and cheney whipped round and said of course orders still stand have you heard anything to contrary....now this could only mean an order not to shoot down plane as if it was an order to shoot down plane then it would have been shot down.....

ben
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Except they were talking about UAL 93 and it had already crashed.
 
wtcconspiracy said:
but the conversation took place at about 9:25.....and flight 93 was never as close to DC as 50 miles ?????

Ben
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Not even close. Mineta stated that Bush was already on his way to Louisiana. That wasn't known until after 10am. Mineta's timeline is off by at least 40 minutes.
 
lapman said:
Not even close. Mineta stated that Bush was already on his way to Louisiana. That wasn't known until after 10am. Mineta's timeline is off by at least 40 minutes.
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Mineta even said he was talking about the plane that hit pentagon.....and how could it be flight 93.....its never got near DC

Ben
 
BenBurch said:
The DNA testing was done by several different labs if I recall correctly; There was far too much of it for any single lab.
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That is true but misses the point in addressing the question that wtcconspiracy raises.
"Who did the DNA testing?", implies that the lab(s) that di it were somehow also in-on-it, part of the conspiracy to fake evidence that flt 77 hit the Pentagon. The response to this question should then be, "What lab would have sufficed for you to believe the results?" The answer one will get from conspiracists will completely avoid presenting any alternative and they will then claim that this just made this part of the subterfuge even easier.

So now they have showed that their supposed 'evidence' is once again a lack of evidence.

There is no video evidence showing something other than Flt 77 hitting the Pentagon and therefore there are suppressed videos that show exactly that.
In other words; Lack of evidence = evidence

There is no lab that they would trust to do DNA identification and therefore they conclude that there is no evidence that anyone from Flt 77 perished in the Pentagon.
Once again then; Lack of evidence = evidence

Then there are the witnesses. In this case the TM takes a slightly different tact. There are numerous witnesses that have the plane as a large airliner and a small minority saying it was a smaller craft.
In this case then the minority reports = evidence

Some go further and attempt to create senarios in which as many of those witnesses who did see a large airliner are considered unreliable because of an affiliation with either the military, the government, a government contractor or the mainstream media. The very fact that this describes a very large number of people who would be expected to live and work in the area around the Pentagon and D.C. is ignored in order to deliberatly reduce the number of , to their mind, witnesses that can be trusted. On the other hand we are told that one taxi driver cannot be trusted because his story, when twisted with enough force, does not match some of the evidence while on the other hand we can trust two police officers even though they would be prime candidates for mistrust. Why? Because their minority witness account matches what the TM would want to hear. I gues Brooks and Lagasse just didn't get the memo.
 
wtcconspiracy said:
The Part where the young guy kept coming in the room saying plane was 50 30 10 miles out.....and then asked cheney do orders still stand and cheney whipped round and said of course orders still stand have you heard anything to contrary....now this could only mean an order not to shoot down plane as if it was an order to shoot down plane then it would have been shot down.....

ben
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For the thousandth time, there were NO planes approaching Washington, D.C. Both Flight 77 and Flight 93 had already crashed. They were looking at a projected flight path for Flight 93. BUT--they didn't know that.

IF CHENEY WAS TALKING ABOUT A STAND-DOWN ORDER, THEN HE WAS CONFESSING TO THE CRIME OF THE CENTURY AND NOT A SINGLE REPORTER SMELLED A STORY.
 
pomeroo said:
For the thousandth time, there were NO planes approaching Washington, D.C. Both Flight 77 and Flight 93 had already crashed. They were looking at a projected flight path for Flight 93. BUT--they didn't know that.

IF CHENEY WAS TALKING ABOUT A STAND-DOWN ORDER, THEN HE WAS CONFESSING TO THE CRIME OF THE CENTURY AND NOT A SINGLE REPORTER SMELLED A STORY.
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Who had a projected flight plan for flight 93.....i thought they didnt know abot 93 until after it was down.....and also how the hell did they not know 93 was down....do they not communicate....i mean we are not talking small planes here.....a bit like when they didnt know at first that flt 77 hit pentagon as they thought it was a bomb.....then after some time they thought flt 11 was still in the air.....i mean did no one know anything on 9/11...

Ben
 
DGM said:
It's called confusion over a very chaotic event. The world is an imperfect place.
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Are the military not trained for chaotic events....I mean they didnt do anything on 9/11......Hijacked jets just flying around and no one to stop them......Can it really just be confusion.....

Ben
 
wtcconspiracy said:
Are the military not trained for chaotic events....I mean they didnt do anything on 9/11......Hijacked jets just flying around and no one to stop them......Can it really just be confusion.....

Ben
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You first problem is you believe that they didn't do anything. This is a big country and things were over before anyone could get there. I think you would have found though that UAL 93 wouldn't have made it to Washington if that's any conciliation.
 
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