DC
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Final NTSB Flightpath Animation?
- Thread starter DC
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DC
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i wasnt talking to you....
Caustic Logic
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Did i says it wa?
DC
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Caustic Logic
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Man I have a lot to learn stll. I first thought the animation grid had a curve to it, varying to like 6 or 7 deg at the west end of flight (turnaround), and like 9 or so at the east end (start/terminus).
So now I'm confused about how I got 10.08 last year and it looks like 10.58 declination as I look now, on the east end. THEN there's the declination at the other end, which is more different than I thought - link above for NOAA gives me for 38 35 30 N 82 45 00 W
Declination = 6° 5' W changing by 0° 4' W/year
So if the grid is rendered magnetic, it WOULD curve noticeably from reality lines (geo north) on about the same scale I first saw but later rejected. Huh!
So a declination of 9 degrees would come into play somewhere along that path, perhaps at takeoff?
38 56 40 77 30 11
Declination = 10° 17' W changing by 0° 1' W/year
Okay, it's in there somewhere, but not at the final map, which is offset by app 7 deg.
So now I'm confused about how I got 10.08 last year and it looks like 10.58 declination as I look now, on the east end. THEN there's the declination at the other end, which is more different than I thought - link above for NOAA gives me for 38 35 30 N 82 45 00 W
Declination = 6° 5' W changing by 0° 4' W/year
So if the grid is rendered magnetic, it WOULD curve noticeably from reality lines (geo north) on about the same scale I first saw but later rejected. Huh!
So a declination of 9 degrees would come into play somewhere along that path, perhaps at takeoff?
38 56 40 77 30 11
Declination = 10° 17' W changing by 0° 1' W/year
Okay, it's in there somewhere, but not at the final map, which is offset by app 7 deg.
Yes sir; You are right, the variation is 10.7 W. Your photo shows the two paths, NOC and real path, off by 21.4 degree so they applied variation wrong. Did I miss something? Your photo is good work.
We don't know if they just started to place the Pentagon image or not. What if they just slapped it down, looked at it and stopped working, as in money/time done; or FBI said fine! Remember!, the FBI does not need the FDR to understand anything about 9/11, it does confirm the terrorist was flying
Just as you are doing work to check the alignment, they would have to align it, mag vs. true. They would have to expend the same time as you are to do the alignment and then the best they can do is use RADES and heading to estimate the distance offset.
It was easy setting the runway image, using takeoff heading on top of the runway heading; done!
Harder alignment is the Pentagon, you have to line it up with the impact point and get a heading correct, twice the work or more than the runway alignment. If they had the variation (or the right orientation, true vs. mag, what ever the final track was compared to the Pentagon alignment, whatever) of the image on the Pentagon correct it would line up. So line up the true track (true track is the path over the ground, mag heading is were the nose is pointed, two different things).
I find nothing to the alignment that means anything, knowing it is a working copy not used for anything. The animation presented to congress by the 9/11 committee; you are saying it was by the NTSB. Sure does not look like it. Looks like a flight path study done by someone else, or with different data.
If your paths on your posted photo at 5:14 today, then, I got 21.4 degree difference between the NoC and real path, variation times two.
I guess we are quibbling, the fact is the animation is a working copy, the data is presented correctly, the images are added, not really related at all the FDR! It is worse when you know 77 did hit the Pentagon and p4t and CIT are making up paranoid false ideas to sell DVDs. With a few minutes of typing we expose those selling lies about 9/11.
If this had GPS and it was stored on the FDR, we would have 10 to 50 foot resolution from the FDR, alas we have 2000-4000 foot resolution.
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Caustic Logic
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Don't take the red and blue lines there too literal. I messed them up a bit, was not precise. Real difference is animation rel to ground map objects (Southgate Road, etc) looks to be 79 deg. You know the FDR track. If grid is mag-oriented, that leaves?
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/chainsawmoth/FrustratingFraud/Balsamo_right.jpg
Word. But No, this is something, but I'll leave it for now. I was actually typing a big message and messed it up. I'll do a post at FF when I have more time to work it oout. Thanks for the inspiration!
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rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
There were goalposts here a minute ago! Where did that damn net come from??
And how did we get to a baseball diamand from a gridiron?
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
I recieved the animation, along with two or three more cd's via regular mail here in Sweden - free of charge. They even called me one evening to say they were sorry for the delay, so no, it didn't cost anything. If you fear for costs, you can make it clear when you file the FOIA that you want to be consulted prior.
/PP
Yeah, I guess the plane was able to take off straight from the runway
even though the terrain image was rotated 21 degrees! LMAO!
Try another theory.
DC
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funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
Yeah, I guess the plane was able to take off straight from the runway
even though the terrain image was rotated 21 degrees! LMAO!
Try another theory.
The pentagon and the take off runway are not in the same place. Think about it.
Sure...so the Pentagon is out of place, and rotated, but nothing else is?
Smart people who made those terrain profiles to purposely neglect the
proper co-oridinate for the Pentacon. My..my, what a coincidence!
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
Try asking the people who made the profiles. Perhaps the fact it was a working copy would explain the discrepancies.
I mean its not like the creators have claimed it is the finished and accurate article is it? Maybe if they had you could have asked them to correct it.
Ohhhh, now you're telling me the NTSB created these terrain profiles just for 9/11?
Are you sure nothing like this existed before 9/11 to study other flights?
I understand there is no data to place images accurately under the animation from the FDR. Data from the FDR would get no closer than 2000 to 4000 feet.
There fore;
The ground section of runway was place exactly on the runway, because we know 77 took off from that exact point, the data does to the degree support the takeoff track!
One of few or more reasons the Pentagon is not places properly in space and rotation;
1. Variation or difference in true or mag messed up while placing image of Pentagon.
2. They put the image on roughly and started to figure out how to aligned but stopped (ie working copy).
3. The key is working copy, and as you are working to figure out why, without knowing why, the amount of work you are doing to align 77 is similar to what they would have to do, and it takes more time then the runways placement. No more time, no more hours to put on animation, that is usually used to see the aircraft actions only; they stop. Working copy.
4. I thought the best reason, was applying variation in error. As you struggle lining up angles and stuff, that is the same as they would have to do! These guys are use to FDR missing, but that complicates the ground placement too. With a quick sloppy variation error, what would happen when works stop, on the working copy?
Are you?
Question: Was the NTSB animation issued to 'the american public' at any time prior to the FOIA request?
I ask because Rob does like to stress that the NTSB wouldn't have released inaccurate information to 'the american public', but if they only released it because it was asked for by the FOIA request, then the NTSB only supplied 'to the american public' the animation which already existed and might not have been intended for general release.
I ask because Rob does like to stress that the NTSB wouldn't have released inaccurate information to 'the american public', but if they only released it because it was asked for by the FOIA request, then the NTSB only supplied 'to the american public' the animation which already existed and might not have been intended for general release.
I see you know as much about this as you do physics. Zero. You can not form a rational question? Please get on topic and try to contribute, stop making up lies and junk ideas about 9/11.
The FDR has no terrain in it! The animation is plotting FDR parameter related to the flight of 77. The real world outside of the animated aircraft is supplied by images essentially placed by "hand". Then the accuracy of the FDR information could only tell you within 2000 to 4000 feet where the plane was. This is a problem if you want an image lined up. For takeoff there is no real problem. Place the animation based on aircraft parameters on the runway.
By the end of the flight the accuracy from the FDR is still off and is not off the same amount as it was at the beginning of flight, it has drifted. So even if you align the Pentagon with the takeoff runway, the animation is not going to be over the real spot it was on 9/11. The animation is made from the FDR, it has no real reference to the ground.
So please explain what you are trying to mess up and lie about this time?
Very intelligent post, you are lacking complete knowledge on this subject, acting like a fool, or are posting an idiot comment by Balsamo.Yeah, I guess the plane was able to take off straight from the runway
even though the terrain image was rotated 21 degrees! LMAO!
Try another theory.
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As a pilot and an aircraft accident investigator I look at the animation as what the plane was doing! There are zero errors! The FDR data is used to show what the plane was doing, not the ground. The ground placement is only accurate to 2000 to 4000 feet with the FDR information for 77. The image placement of the Pentagon has to be done "manually" as was the airport runway image.
I see no errors in the aircraft animation, the image placement/alignment is not done. Working copy, Balsamo is a moron on this topic.