Final NTSB Flightpath Animation?

[DC]

we all know the Working copy of the NTSB flightpath animation for Flight 77.

we all know the animation is wrong.

so i wonder where the final version is, the corrected one. or did NTSB and FBI etc work with that faulty copy?

most conspiracy-deniers cry about P4T using the data and Animation the got from NTSB. but i dont see those deniers cry about NTSB and FBI using that faulty copy.

where is the final and correct animation?

is there one?

and still, the dieniers dont even rise an eyebrow.....

 

[MikeW]

where is the final and correct animation?

is there one?

Ask the NTSB. If you're genuinely interested in the answer, that is, as opposed to attempting to score rhetorical debating points.

 

[DC]

Ask the NTSB. If you're genuinely interested in the answer, that is, as opposed to attempting to score rhetorical debating points.

in other words, you never asked yourself if there is a final version, a correct version.

figures

thx for the answer

 

[MikeW]

in other words, you never asked yourself if there is a final version, a correct version.

figures

thx for the answer

That's not what I said. But then I'm used to being misrepresented by truthers, so "figures" right back at you.

No, I'm just curious why you're asking people who won't know the answer. Unless of course you're asking because you KNOW you won't get an answer, which means you can drag this out forever and make it look like you're doing something useful. Instead of actually doing something useful, which would be to make an FOIA app to the NTSB.

Hey, I'll even post the URL for you - http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.asp . Go request any and all animations made of the Flight 77 flight path. It won't cost you a penny, and you'll get an answer to your question, then you can come back and let us know.

 

[DC]

That's not what I said. But then I'm used to being misrepresented by truthers, so "figures" right back at you.

No, I'm just curious why you're asking people who won't know the answer. Unless of course you're asking because you KNOW you won't get an answer, which means you can drag this out forever and make it look like you're doing something useful. Instead of actually doing something useful, which would be to make an FOIA app to the NTSB.

Hey, I'll even post the URL for you - http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.asp . Go request any and all animations made of the Flight 77 flight path. It won't cost you a penny, and you'll get an answer to your question, then you can come back and let us know.

i thaught i would have to pay if it cost more than 14 dollars or something like that.

i thaught one of those ppl that "researched" about the FDR data would know.
so many ppl here that know everything, like beachnut the superengineer topgun pilot.

 

[MikeW]

i thaught i would have to pay if it cost more than 14 dollars or something like that.

You have to pay if your request takes an age to complete, or involves more than x pages. I forget the exact number, but that doesn't matter, you only need a CD or 2 and others have got that for free. I suppose if there have been loads of animations we don't know about then they might charge you, but in that case it would be worth it - you'd have a major scoop, and still only have to pay a few dollars.

 

[Cuddles]

Stop the derails and personal attacks or the remainder of the thread will join the rest in AAH.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

 

[beachnut]

There is nothing wrong with the animation working copy if you understand the animation and what it is for, and how it is derived. Please list all that is wrong? The ground representation is added for effect, it can't be placed with FDR information for 77 due to accuracy problems. Altimeter setting and adjustments are made to show what the pilot would see, but if adjustments are not made, the RAW values are clearly seen. But that takes understanding.

The Pentagon ground photo is place in a position and rotated the wrong direction by ~2X magnetic deviation. That is the only thing wrong, but it is not wrong based on the FDR, the FDR does not give you information to place 77 better than 2000 to 4000 feet accuracy!

The OP is in error, the data from the FDR is presented correctly, the ground has to be manually place, the FDR data does not have photos of the ground. The accuracy of 77 can only get you 2000-4000 feet to where you really are! 77 had no GPS.

We all flew (before GPS) in planes with navigation good to thousands of feet but landed within 10 feet of centerline on every flight! I would think the truthers would jump on the thousands of feet accuracy, but they have no clue what is going on in the real world.

The animation is used to display aircraft parameters. The animation does not use 77 the navigation information to place the vehicle, flight parameter are used to build a path. The aircraft was placed on the Runway manually by placing a ground section under the animated aircraft. All the parameters shown are from the FDR, there are some things done to help the realism of the presentation, it was not finished because the animation was a …

Working Copy!

This is a useless thread…

Unless someone can prove it is wrong! But to be wrong it has to present the aircraft flight parameters wrong. It does not if you understand how it is made.

As you can see the aircraft does all the parameters perfectly as listed in the FDR! I have checked frames for errors, there are ZERO ERRORS.

My definition of a working copy preclude there being errors, it is not finished.

Since all reality on 9/11 is an error for 9/11 truth, there is no point to this thread.

Point out some errors you think mean something to 9/11. With 77 is at 400 feet MSL when the DATA STOPPED, and 4722 feet away from the Pentagon when the DATA STOPPED; the fact the working copy has the Pentagon in the wrong position is not even an issues since the placement of 77 by FDR information is not accurate, it can be 2000-4000 feet off in any direction. Good luck trying to call the placement of the ground photo an ERROR when accuracy is 2000-4000 feet in any direction. Good luck truthers.

Which part of, "I saw it hit the Pentagon", or "I saw it hit the lamppost", by independent witnesses does the truth movement not understand. What dumb ideas people come up with, 6 years of pure ignorance on 9/11, 9/11 truth.

only one version, 9/11 was solved, you missed it – NTSB animation are used to see how the plane is flying, it was not used to show you were the Plane WAS, the FDR can only give you accuracy to 2000-4000 feet. It is sad 9/11 truth lacks understanding as if they fail to read and study before making up junk ideas in the from of questions.

Why does the meaning of, "working copy", "I saw it hit the Pentagon", and "I saw it hit the lampposts" go over the heads of truth movement members?

List of errors - 0 (due to it being a working copy)
List of parameters stored in the FDR not represented properly – 0 (have to use logic, knowledge and sound judgment to figure out)
Working copy ground registration for take off – completed good job
Working copy ground registration for crash - not finished, position not known, data is missing, or 77 is still in the air at 400 feet above the impact zone at 4722 feet to go on a heading close to 70 degrees magnetic, lined up with the impact path.

What is it, fantasy ideas of 9/11 truth or rational ideas based on the facts?

 

[T.A.M.]

in other words, you never asked yourself if there is a final version, a correct version.

figures

thx for the answer

For me to even consider, let alone want a "final corrected version" it would have to have some impact on the final account of 9/11. To me it does not. If to you it does, then you go ask them.

TAM

 

[Caustic Logic]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4196580169348087802

Watch this video - 7:10 mark - you'll see a John Farmer of the NTSB (not the Truther John Farmer) presenting a finished animation to the 9/11 Commission in the NTSB ballroom, as shown on C-Span. Is it available stand-alone? I dunno. I asked for this along with the other animation ("any and all animations" were my words) with a FOIA request and got a empty envelope. I'm not complaining about it or using it to foster mystery, they just screwed up. They might not the next time.

“this working copy was never used for an official purpose.” is what the letter I got said. ("this" being a hypothetical pronoun).

The flight path matches the FDR and radar. Why the errors on ground representation that makes it look otherwise, who knows.

Odd things: It's a result of a 7 deg CCW rotation off a magnetic-oriented (10 deg CCW) grid, so 17 deg CCWW total rotation, or so, gives us an app. NoC path. Why that rotation?
video explanation

Was the error intentional? Was it rendered in 2003 to match Lagasse's story? Or was he - or anyone else (like Turcios) coached with it?

Why was it released to Snowygrouch - unannounced - when he never knew of or asked for it? Was it being seeded?

Or is it all a coincidence as I guess most here would conclude?

Explanations for my points can be found here:
http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/2007/02/flight-data-recorder.html

 

[DGM]

Why would the NTSB spend time putting out an animation to prove that the plane that they found in the building hit said building.

This has to be a joke thread. (please reassure my faith in humanity by saying your not serious)

 

[DC]

Why would the NTSB spend time putting out an animation to prove that the plane that they found in the building hit said building.

This has to be a joke thread. (please reassure my faith in humanity by saying your not serious)

your joking?
think about it again lol.
why did they make the "working" edition then anyway?

 

[DGM]

your joking?
think about it again lol.
why did they make the "working" edition then anyway?

Now I really know why I don't read your post (normally, you are on ignore).

They had the data (raw as it was) and someone requested it.

Look at the big picture (where the plane was found) and you might (doubtful) understand my original post.

Our just come out and accuse the hundreds of volunteers of being in on mass murder.

 

[beachnut]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4196580169348087802

Watch this video - 7:10 mark - you'll see a John Farmer of the NTSB (not the Truther John Farmer) presenting a finished animation to the 9/11 Commission in the NTSB ballroom, as shown on C-Span. Is it available stand-alone? I dunno. I asked for this along with the other animation ("any and all animations" were my words) with a FOIA request and got a empty envelope. I'm not complaining about it or using it to foster mystery, they just screwed up. They might not the next time.

“this working copy was never used for an official purpose.” is what the letter I got said. ("this" being a hypothetical pronoun).

The flight path matches the FDR and radar. Why the errors on ground representation that makes it look otherwise, who knows.

Odd things: It's a result of a 7 deg CCW rotation off a magnetic-oriented (10 deg CCW) grid, so 17 deg CCWW total rotation, or so, gives us an app. NoC path. Why that rotation?
video explanation

Was the error intentional? Was it rendered in 2003 to match Lagasse's story? Or was he - or anyone else (like Turcios) coached with it?

Why was it released to Snowygrouch - unannounced - when he never knew of or asked for it? Was it being seeded?

Or is it all a coincidence as I guess most here would conclude?

Explanations for my points can be found here:
http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/2007/02/flight-data-recorder.html

The video is not the NTSB stuff! Farmer presents another video, the working copy is not even in that video, no plane, no instruments. Did you catch CIT making up more BS? Their video is pure junk.

The ground has to be placed by hand, there is no data in the FDR to tell you were you are better than 2000-4000 feet.

Why do people think the ground lines up with anything? There is no data to accurately place 77 with the ground in the FDR.

Take off is perfectly matched with a runway, we know the pilot took the centerline of the runway, not 2000 feet to the south, so we move the runway section under the animation. 77 tells us in the FDR it is to the south over 2000 feet! The NTSB had to place the runway by hand under the animation! The animation is the aircraft. The ground is not depicted with accuracy in the FDR, you have to move the ground to match the best location. Takeoff is 100 percent known, down to 50 feet or so.

Magnetic Variation is 9W degree. 9 + 9 is 18 degrees. If you place the Pentagon ground image (not found in the FDR) under the animation formed by the FDR, and you rotate it the wrong direction for magnetic variation, you get an 18 degree error, a match to your 17 degrees. If you plot a true north oriented object, you must use variation to align it to the other system, magnetic orientation, or visa versa. If you do it right, it lines up. You do it wrong, it is 2x off! This is why the Pentagon is rotated wrong, no other reason. The NTSB does not take bs as inputs. This is why crews get lost.

Your work is excellent and proves the variation was in error. As for distance to the Pentagon, it can not be verified better than 2000-4000 feet. The best you can do, since you know 77 is in the pentagon and the impact path, is line up the true track heading to the Pentagon, and use RADES to align the distance.

Using RADES, speed and other information, you can estimate 77 was 4722 feet to go with 400 feet to descend into the Pentagon heading 61.2 degrees true track. The terrorist pilot misses the VOT Tower, looks like laterally, and makes his final PIO into the Pentagon.

Anyone can try to place object on charts and come up with the error like the Pentagon under the animation. Just take a mag or true object, place it on a true or mag setting, and mess up the variation. What do you get?

What is cool, it is a working copy, the NTSB said so. Looks like there are other animations based on other data. There is other data to look at.

Your work clearly shows how much of a fraud CIT and p4t are. Good job.

 

[DC]

Now I really know why I don't read your post (normally, you are on ignore).

They had the data (raw as it was) and someone requested it.

Look at the big picture (where the plane was found) and you might (doubtful) understand my original post.

Our just come out and accuse the hundreds of volunteers of being in on mass murder.

lol

so the NTSB did not creat the animation?

 

[funk de fino]

your joking?
think about it again lol.
why did they make the "working" edition then anyway?

Ask the loose change guys, they made plenty "working" editions

 

[funk de fino]

lol

so the NTSB did not creat the animation?

Thats not what anyone has said. Try again.

 

[Tweeter]

To bad beach wasnt near a plane that day, he woulda gottem!!!

 

[Caustic Logic]

The video is not the NTSB stuff! Farmer presents another video, the working copy is not even in that video, no plane, no instruments. Did you catch CIT making up more BS? Their video is pure junk.

Ah, so it's not a direct translation - two different types of animation? No dials or anything... But it has the ground right under the track.

If this is not the final version of that erred animation, then SDC's question remains valid - I haven't seen the end product yet.

But an NTSB guy presents it, so I'd guess it's an NTSB product from the black box? I love how it's shown at a 9/11 commission hearing, so it's a "9/11 comm." animation, which is different from the "official NTSB animation." Which would you believe? The official cover-up people or the ones with the actual data? (See this technique here, at 39:05) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8672066571196607580&q=pandora%27s+black+box+&ei=JBqQSKnVCYqIrgOx5rmlCA

Now that's a cheesy move, right?

Why do people think the ground lines up with anything? There is no data to accurately place 77 with the ground in the FDR.

Well, there is the part at the begining where it drives straight for a while at 300 feet MSL before taking off. That's an anchor point where they drew the ground right.

Magnetic Variation is 9W degree. 9 + 9 is 18 degrees. If you place the Pentagon ground image (not found in the FDR) under the animation formed by the FDR, and you rotate it the wrong direction for magnetic variation, you get an 18 degree error, a match to your 17 degrees.

I always went off 10.08, which I found was the declination for that day and place. Was that wrong? Actually the part I was more sure of was the 7 deg rotation between map and grid. Grid actually SEEMED more like 9 deg off, but I figured magnetic and bumped it to 10.1. So maybe 9 there, but Is the final map 9 deg off from the grid? I'd like to see how I got that wrong if so. Is there any good, honest reason to turn it 7 instead of 9 or 10? I'll have to come back to this point.

Your work clearly shows how much of a fraud CIT and p4t are. Good job.

Thanks, that means a lot. Too bad pfft "always felt" it was rotation anyway, huh?! And might I say I find your posts alternately informative and entertaining.

 

[Caustic Logic]

lol

so the NTSB did not creat the animation?

lol

so now you are saying short sentences with big implications that make no sense? I SAID that at first, but was apparently wrong.

And what is your point here? You ask a question and are given answers. Are you learning anything, or what?

Beachnut: I checked here:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/struts/calcDeclination
I entered Latitude: 38 52 15 N Long 77 03 30 W, for 9/11/2001, and it says
Declination = 10° 35' W changing by 0° 1' W/year
Isn't 35 out of 60? So this means I was wrong with 10.08, it's more like 10.6! That's even further from 9 as you say. And still the map is set only app 7 deg skewed from the grid. Are we just quibbling here?