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Fasting

O.k here is what I found out about lemon: Lemon helps food move through the stomach, it's a natural antacid because it helps the stomach's natural bicarbonate work; people who wake in the morning feeling bloated and nauseous and can't face breakfast should drink lemon in water. It cleanses the liver and increases expectoration and thins mucus. Dr. Carolyn Dean

So there hehe...as for the rest..whatever floats your boat :P I may think these things work, but others don't....do whatever makes you feel good right? I suppose even if you go organic there is bound to be chemicals from other farmers fields who are not organic but live nearby...so yeah perhaps that example was not the best..but I felt really good when I did this diet.
 
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karmicserenade said:
So there hehe...as for the rest..whatever floats your boat :P I may think these things work, but others don't....do whatever makes you feel good right?
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Ah, I think I see the problem... you see, this is a skeptical forum, we tend to prefer to work from the evidence rather than "what feels good".
 
Well if you use these as your experts:

"Death by Modern Medicine" was written by Dr. Carolyn Dean MD, ND, and Trueman Tuck, Rights Advocate, and goes far beyond the statistics of deaths due to drugs. It shows how the allopathic medical monopoly has created a Health Care system that fails to encourage good health, especially by prevention.

<snip>

Dr. Carolyn Dean is a medical doctor, naturopathic doctor, herbalist, acupuncturist, nutritionist, and the author of over 12 books. She is a powerful health activist fighting for our collective health freedom.
Dr. Dean’s work on “Death by Medicine” stunned the health community and propelled her into greater advocacy regarding the abuse of medications, the suppression of dietary supplements, and the medical monopoly. Dr. Dean feels that being informed is the first step toward solving our current health care crisis.


source.

This is very obviously woo, if modern medicine was really a number one cause of death, we'd expect to see a lower life expectancy in the western world compared to the rest of the world (Africa, huge tracts of the Orient) where quakery (oohhh.. sorry alternative medi... (no I can't make myself call it medicine)) is more common.

The opposite is true.
 
Why did I join this fourm? Well because I thought it would be great to discuss various topics with intelligent anylitical people...is that a crime?? Why did you join??

Doing a diet to lose weight does not make me some flake. I am simply trying to help a person who asked for it. I don't think that makes me any less of a skeptic. In fact I think it makes me a nice person :P.
 
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The woo creeps in when people use the words "toxin" and "cleanse" as if there is solid scientific backing for these terms in the context of fasting.

This reminds me a lot of those damn foot pads they are selling on tv.. actually you would be better off buying into those and not starving yourself in terms of cleansing your body of toxins (I am guessing that they have similar effectiveness)

if you just like doing weird body tricks then have at it and be careful. A friend once told me about a really scary one where she drank a bunch of oil (dim memory may be off a bit) which caused her to pee out all her stones.
 
karmicserenade said:
Doing a diet to lose weight does not make me some flake. I am simply trying to help a person who asked for it. I don't think that makes me any less of a skeptic. In fact I think it makes me a nice person :P.
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You are a nice person, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! I'm not certain why anyone questioned your pressence here, since skepticism runs in both directions, but I suppose being skeptical of your membership is along the skpetics track of "Things I Should Do Today". :D
 
You are welcome to join and discuss here. This board tries very hard not to suppress any opinions, (and think of how boring it would be if only one point of view was expressed, to the exclusion of all others).

Welcome.

karmicserenade said:
Why did I join this fourm? Well because I thought it would be great to discuss various topics with intelligent anylitical people...is that a crime?? Why did you join??

Doing a diet to lose weight does not make me some flake. I am simply trying to help a person who asked for it. I don't think that makes me any less of a skeptic. In fact I think it makes me a nice person :P.
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Well, I at least AM trying to discuss things intelligently, but I need a lot of convincing that other than eating a balanced diet with only a tiny amount of meat in it there is very much you can do to improve your health in the way of food.

We do know that too much red meat seems to be linked to cancers, and too much salt water fish to mercury problems, and so those are in the diet in moderation.

And there might be something to be said for organic produce, but only if it is actually organic and not just labeled that way because people will pay more for it.

And I really like lemon juice in my cold water.

:-)

Stay, please?
 
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karmicserenade said:
Doing a diet to lose weight does not make me some flake.
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True, but unless you plan on maintaining your diet for life it is an ultimately futile pursuit and will almost certainly result in excess weight gain when you start "eating normally" again. Diets don't work.
 
baron said:
True, but unless you plan on maintaining your diet for life it is an ultimately futile pursuit and will almost certainly result in excess weight gain when you start "eating normally" again. Diets don't work.
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This is true, which is why there are yo-yoing weight loss and weight gain. You don't actually want to lose weight, but adjust your lifestyle to a more healthy fit, which includes eating a balanced diet to meet your specific body needs and exercising regularly and correctly. If you have weight issues, they should, slowly, become a thing of the past.

Note: This will not necessarily solve every problem, which is why any dieting and exercise program should be discussed with your doctor. In fact, your doctor should have inquired after both items during a yearly physical exam.
 
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baron said:
True, but unless you plan on maintaining your diet for life it is an ultimately futile pursuit and will almost certainly result in excess weight gain when you start "eating normally" again. Diets don't work.
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Well I don't know about that...I have managed to maintain my weight, and feel really good, and I am back to a normal diet which consists of the occasional 'bad' snack (chips and salsa with guacamole mmm) actually I have been eating 'normal' for over six months now...I am still a size eight...so must be that I have a good metabolism..truth be told I used to take a medication that caused excessive weight gain, now that I don't take it, I am thin again...go figure. I think doing the diet thing helped to jumpstart the loss, but it probably would have happened naturally.
 
karmicserenade said:
O.k here is what I found out about lemon: Lemon helps food move through the stomach, it's a natural antacid because it helps the stomach's natural bicarbonate work; people who wake in the morning feeling bloated and nauseous and can't face breakfast should drink lemon in water. It cleanses the liver and increases expectoration and thins mucus. Dr. Carolyn Dean
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Lemon does not help food move through the GI tract. Lemon is not an antacid (quite the opposite). Lemon does not help bicarbonate work. Everyone should drink water, lemonized or not. It's the water that does the work, not the lemon. Lemon does not cleanse the liver, increase expectoration or thin mucus. Dr. Dean is a quack. If you don't believe so, cite her peer-reviewed papers behind the claims you have posted.

I suppose even if you go organic there is bound to be chemicals from other farmers fields who are not organic but live nearby...so yeah perhaps that example was not the best..but I felt really good when I did this diet.
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KS, everything is a chemical, not just stuff made in labs, plants and factories. Natural stuff is full of natural chemicals. Presence or absence of synthetic chemicals does not necessarily affect the nutritive value of a food. For example, addition of synthetic ascorbic acid to apple slices does not render them dangerous. In contrast, the presence of too much natural aflatoxin in peanuts will do you lots of harm.

Don't fall for the popular but wrong platitudes that nature won't hurt you. Most of the deadliest substances known ot us are natural and most of these are complex enough that they can't be synthesized.

karmicserenade said:
Well because I thought it would be great to discuss various topics with intelligent anylitical people...is that a crime??
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We are intelligent, analytical people. We know that molecules have no way to tell whether they're synthetic or natural so that's what draws skepticism to your statements. We also value statements and posits that are backed up by data, not whimsy. We would no sooner accept just-so statements that people like Dr. Dean make than we would believe Uri Geller is psychic. All statements must be backed up.

Doing a diet to lose weight does not make me some flake. I am simply trying to help a person who asked for it. I don't think that makes me any less of a skeptic. In fact I think it makes me a nice person :P.
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Believing woo does make you less of a skeptic than not believing woo. The "natural is better than synthetic" woo has been around for quite a while and there are very few authoritative sources speaking against it so this is really a pablum woo. There is no evidence for it.

However, as far as woo is concerned, this type of woo won't do you any harm as long as you don't believe it's claims that certain intake can cure diseases. If you want to spend the extra cash on food grown in certain ways, that's your choice. All that does is cost you a few more dollars every week. However, don't believe people who tell you that a certain type of calcium will cure cancer or that lemon will detoxify a specific chemical out of bone, fat or liver. Go see a doctor, and not a naturopathic one.
 
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