The point is not so much Michael Savage. The point is Trump sharing his video on Truth Social.
(Not that Trump hasn't also been a raving lunatic for quite a while.)
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(Not that Trump hasn't also been a raving lunatic for quite a while.)
Gulliver Foyle
Philosopher
S
They supported TACO for at least three elections, and the republitraitor party before that. If they're not nazis now, they were for at least the last twenty years.
Watch the video! Listen to their stories!
Those guys aren't Nazis. They made the mistake of voting for one, and they regret it.
Feel free to be angry about that, but try to distinguish between different kinds of (previous) MAGA voters.
For the most part, the Nazi MAGA voters aren't out there talking about Leaving MAGA.
(When I say, "for the most part," it's because a small minority of the Nazis voters don't think MAGA is Nazi enough. Don't make their recruitment efforts easier.)
Those guys aren't Nazis. They made the mistake of voting for one, and they regret it.
Feel free to be angry about that, but try to distinguish between different kinds of (previous) MAGA voters.
For the most part, the Nazi MAGA voters aren't out there talking about Leaving MAGA.
(When I say, "for the most part," it's because a small minority of the Nazis voters don't think MAGA is Nazi enough. Don't make their recruitment efforts easier.)
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
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- 32,680
It's not our obligation to sort out the deserving from the undeserving former Trump supporters.
It's up to them that to show that they want to help fix what they broke with their vote
It's up to them that to show that they want to help fix what they broke with their vote
Gulliver Foyle
Philosopher
If they want to prove their non-nazi credentials, let them prove it by going on better than Georg Elser.
Good luck with making it more difficult for them to come to their senses.
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
On the other hand, if you are too lenient, they might not recognize just how wrong they are and will fall for the next wanna-be fascist that comes along.
"OH I voted for trump but people forgave me. I guess my plan to vote for the vance/trump Jr. Ticket in 2028 is ok because trump himselfis gone."
A person "coming to their senses" just because they personally got hurt by trump instead of "other people" does not deserve sympathy
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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By definition, you won't be able to convince them of anything - they have to come to their senses on their own.
All extreme regimes pass points at which the movement splits into too radical vs not racial enough factions.
The question is what was the final straw for some, and why not so much else before?
It's a legitimate question to ask that deserves a soul-searching answer.
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 54,796
Like many/most people who voted for the Nazi party. But being a member of the nazi party is not sufficient evidence to call someone a nazi.
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
Where exactly is the evidence that the people in the video are not nazis?
Ok, it interviewed several former MAGAchud who talked about why they joined the Trump cult... (One talked about being a 'tradwife', another did so because 'family'.) But it doesn't matter HOW they came to associate with Trump, the important thing is that they actually did.
Trump was very open about what he was planning. His attempts to overturn democracy, his racism, etc. were well documented. Those voters looked at him, knew (or should have known) what he was like, and still voted for him. It doesn't matter if they did so because "I'm a hardcore fascist and have been all my life", or they decided "I'm quite ok with fascism because family/husband/etc. told me to."
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Yeah, fascists and other conservatives would never dream of something like that!
Continued from posts 1,593 and 1,594:
With a video, 23 sec.
'To prevent plots before they happen' sounds like Minority Report!
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Or if they weren't actually "quite ok with fascism" and thought that it was all bluster and that Trump would be kept in control by others to some extent like he was the first time around.
It's astonishing how eager some of you are to implement your idea that 'they're all the same and should be treated like that' – not unlike the way Trump and his MAGAlytes look at anybody left of MAGA.
"But it doesn't matter HOW."
Yes, it actually does matter – both how they landed in the cult then and how they have left it now.
That you want to make it more difficult for them is a weird and not at all expedient attitude to them.
By the way, where is your evidence that the people in the video are nazis? Isn't that how the burden of proof usually works?
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
His first term ended with trump trying to overthrow the government, and with the majority of republicans in congress saying "nah, its ok... we didn't want democracy anyways". So there was no real 'control' left by the end of his term, and things only got worse when the supreme court decided the president was above the law.
Anyone assuming Trump would be "controlled" by others in his second term is exhibiting a substantial amount of willful ignorance.
First of all, I gave a reason why they should not be immediately forgiven: By taking a conciliatory attitude with them would increase the risk that they might make the same mistake in the future.
Secondly, if they truly are showing remorse, and they recognize that yes, indeed what they had been doing by supporting Trump was evil, then they shouldn't care that they continue to be treated harshly. They should see it as fitting punishment for destroying American Democracy.
Lets see...
They looked at a guy who 1) was 'right wing', 2) tried to overthrow democracy, 3) engaged in the game of "blame the minorities" as scapegoats, 4) encouraged violence by his supporters, 5) centralized authority in a single leader, minimizing the courts and legislature. These are all hallmarks of a wannabe nazi/fascist. All of these voters would have seen that and still voted for him.
They may not be nazis/fascists NOW, but that doesn't mean we cannot think that they were nazis/fascists when they were voting for Trump.
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You don't listen to what those Leaving MAGA people are actually saying. Otherwise, you would know why what you're writing isn't true. Listen to what the women whom you mentioned previously says about "trump trying to overthrow the government," you know, the one who was into the trad wife thing.
What she says is that she didn't ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ know that this was what happened!
She only found out about it when she met her new husband. He couldn't believe how she could be so ignorant of the insurrection attempt, so he made her watch videos about what actually took place on Jan 6. She had been in the Fox information bubble about that event! (And the story about her new husband also tells us that the trad wife thing didn't really work out for her. Another thing: Her new husband is black, which also doesn't seem to be in line with the trad-wife ideology.)
Yes, you demonstrated your primitive thinking: 'People need to be punished for being wrong. Otherwise, they won't learn!'
Good luck with that conservative idea! It didn't really help you and the others considering that it didn't teach you anything about Biden and Harris and their conservative politics. You make the same mistake election after election, and all you seem to care about is the Democratic version of 'owning the libs,' i.e. owning the conservatives: 'I've got a right to be angry at them, I've got a right to enjoy seeing them suffer, and that is more important to me than helping them change!'
Good luck with that attitude.
I have already explained to you, that no, what they were doing was ignorant, not evil, but you are so embittered that you'll rather stick with your fantasy of what caused them to vote for Trump than look at reality, which is why you won't even listen to what they are actually saying about their change. Instead of considering how you might help them change, you cling to your revenge fantasy about continuing to treat them harshly, i.e. owning the conservatives.
Good luck with that attitude.
I asked you, "where is your evidence that the people in the video are nazis?" And instead of coming up with that evidence, i.e. instead of listening to them and acknowledging what they are actually saying, you continue to present what you imagine they are:
You don't have a single quotation from them!!! Instead, you stay in your own disinformation bubble – unlike them. They have actually left theirs, which is why they are now helping people leave MAGA, whereas you cling to your how-can-I-make-them-suffer-more revenge fantasy.
Yes, in your fantasy they all exhibit the "hallmarks of a wannabe nazi/fascist," but unlike you they have shown that they are capable of changing their POV when they get new information. You refuse to even look at new information.
Good luck with that.
You are right about one thing, though: "that doesn't mean we cannot think that they were nazis/fascists when they were voting for Trump." There are indeed no limits to what you can think, i.e. imagine about them. Thoughts are free. You have a right to fantasize instead of acknowledging reality and leaving your bubble. Nobody can take that away from you.
Good luck with that. I hope your stubborn ignorance works out better for you than their ignorance worked out for them.
How to Get Someone Out of the MAGA Cult (Lucas Bean on YouTube, July 22, 2026 – 8:11 min.)
There's probably also a video somewhere out there about How to Stay Angry at Someone Who Once Voted MAGA.
There's probably also a video somewhere out there about How to Stay Angry at Someone Who Once Voted MAGA.
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
Yes I heard that "trad wife" thing and her supposedly not knowing.
My response to that:
First of all, you are assuming she is giving an honest account of the situation. I am sure that many of the people who lived in nazi germany actually knew about the holocaust, but only claimed to be unaware once the war was ended. Its quite possible that this woman is engaging in the same sort of lie. "You can't blame me, I just didn't know what was going on".
Secondly, given much the terrorist attack and its after math was publicized, she would have had to have gone out of her way not to have heard something about it. (Heck, the MAGAchud themselves were probably boasting about it). Notice the phrasing I used? "Willful ignorance"? She would have had to have actively gone out of her way not to listen to ANY news at all.
The best she could have done is claimed "I knew about the terrorist attack but thought it was OK because.... (insert MAGAchud justification lie here)". But even an ignorant person should have seen that "hey, these people are swarming all over the building. Maybe this is something that I should try to look into".
Thirdly, note that my previous comment was specifically about the former MAGAchud who voted for trump because they thought "he would have people around him controlling him". This would not have been the mindset of someone who is truly attached from reality.
ETA: It should be noted that I do not recall any of the former MAGAchud claiming "I thought Trump would have people around him to control him" as a reason why they voted for the wannabe-fascist. You were the one who seems to be coming up with some sort of justification without any sort of evidence.
Lastly, lets assume that this woman's story is true. Her husband kept her isolated from all news, she didn't know about the terrorist attack, etc.. Ok, that might give her a justification about "ignorance not evil". But what about the other half dozen or so people in the group? None of them claimed they were kept in a cave for the past 4 years and were only allowed out of the cave to vote.
Fox may be biased, but they still reported on it.
According to google AI:
"On the day of the attack, Fox News correspondents reported on the breach of the U.S. Capitol as it happened, detailing the clashes with law enforcement and the evacuation of lawmakers."
Even if Fox news later tried to spin it as "justified because (insert reasons)", they were still broadcasting footage of various clashes and reporting on how it impacted congressmen. More than enough for a person to think "Ok, something is wrong here....".
I am more than willing to admit they have changed. What I am not willing to do is to suggest what they did FORMERLY was not evil.
Why would I need a quote from them?
They voted for Trump, a man who is trying to bring fascism to the US. The fact that a bunch of former MAGAchud now say "don't blame me, it was my husband/family/etc. who made me do it" doesn't change the fact that they were still willing to destroy democracy.
As the saying goes, actions speak louder than words.
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Such a long post to justify your idea that people who have actually left and are actively trying to help people leave MAGA are evil.
It's getting boring trying to get through to you, but when people are in the MAGA + Fox bubble, they don't actually know what Jan 6 was. It's possible that they heard about it on Fox, but if they did, they would also have been assuaged by Tucker Carlson and others showing clips 'proving' that the insurrectionists were merely sightseeing tourists and that the violent ones outside were Antifa.
No, it's not at all "quite possible that this woman is engaging in the same sort of lie" as the post-WW2 Nazis. Unlike the post-war Nazis, MAGA hasn't been defeated yet, and this woman is brave enough to stand up and confront them now, before they have been defeated. I actually admire her for admitting that she used to be a misinformed ignoramus who is now trying to make up for her mistake.
Your attempt to parallelize the Leaving MAGA group with post-war Nazis is nothing but self-serving nonsense.
Good luck with that!
For people who are interested in knowing what Leaving MAGA actually represents, I recommend the page They Left MAGA where 32 former MAGAlytes tell their stories.
It's getting boring trying to get through to you, but when people are in the MAGA + Fox bubble, they don't actually know what Jan 6 was. It's possible that they heard about it on Fox, but if they did, they would also have been assuaged by Tucker Carlson and others showing clips 'proving' that the insurrectionists were merely sightseeing tourists and that the violent ones outside were Antifa.
No, it's not at all "quite possible that this woman is engaging in the same sort of lie" as the post-WW2 Nazis. Unlike the post-war Nazis, MAGA hasn't been defeated yet, and this woman is brave enough to stand up and confront them now, before they have been defeated. I actually admire her for admitting that she used to be a misinformed ignoramus who is now trying to make up for her mistake.
Your attempt to parallelize the Leaving MAGA group with post-war Nazis is nothing but self-serving nonsense.
Good luck with that!
For people who are interested in knowing what Leaving MAGA actually represents, I recommend the page They Left MAGA where 32 former MAGAlytes tell their stories.
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bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Surprise surprise.....
www.cbsnews.com
Trump voter pleads for fiancée's release after ICE arrest: "They're destroying families"
"They are picking up law-abiding citizens. They're destroying families, jobs," said a Texas man who regrets his vote for President Trump after his fiancée, an immigrant from Venezuela, was detained by ICE.
www.cbsnews.com
plague311
Great minds think...
Surprise surprise.....
Trump voter pleads for fiancée's release after ICE arrest: "They're destroying families"
"They are picking up law-abiding citizens. They're destroying families, jobs," said a Texas man who regrets his vote for President Trump after his fiancée, an immigrant from Venezuela, was detained by ICE.
This fits the subject of the thread to a T. "I regret my vote now that they're coming after MY family!" Yeah, ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ sucks buddy. You should rethink your whole life that got you to this point.