Face, meet leopard. Leopard, meet face.

[Safe-Keeper]

Was Obama as incompetent as George W Bush?

(Btw, sorry about the laugh reaction, I thought you meant that as a joke.)

 

[Mojo]

When they leave the MAGA movement, they'll still feel that they re disadvantaged, they'll still feel that blacks and women have too many advantages, they still hate all wokeness, and they still want the U.S. to become a white religious nation.

Their disappointment that Trump's policies have just been for the rich is not going to change anything, and they'll offer their allegiance to a new leader who'll seem to address their situation. Given Trump's exceptional flair for the stupid, and counterproductive, their next leader simply can't be as incompetent.

That's the problem. Trump's incompetence is the nearest thing he has to a redeeming feature.

 

[bruto]

I grew up in northwestern Connecticut, home base of William F. Buckley, for example, and the right wing horsey aristocracy. No doubt most of those folks consider Trump and his crowd clowns and fools, but they also consider them their fools, their tools.

I suppose I'm not as surprised as some at the apparent literacy and sophistication of some of those former Trumpers. I was once long ago something like a "preppie," though I comfort myself in having always been a poor fit. Plenty of my contemporaries were highly educated, well spoken, and all that stuff, but they were moral idiots, shallow of penetration, masters of facile persiflage, suckers for theories and world views that happily aligned with their prejudices.

I'm all for a bit of leniency here. Plenty of people were misled, lied to, mistaken, and so forth. But I'm reminded a bit of the aftermath of the financial meltdown and collapse of the mortgage market, when it was suggested (and implemented) by many that the best people to get us out of it were the people who got us into it because they knew the ropes. We need not flagellate the pseudo-intellectuals and right wing theorists whose monster once more slipped its leash, but we should tell them they've had their turn. It's time to go home and feed the horses and finish their stamp collections and shut the ◊◊◊◊ up.

I sometimes think the worst thing about the "great replacement" conspiracy is not its cockeyed ideology but the unfortunate fact that it hasn't actually happened yet!

 

[dann]

problem about "soft landings" is that they are a springboard to the exact same thing next time it comes around.

When they leave the MAGA movement, they'll still feel that they re disadvantaged, they'll still feel that blacks and women have too many advantages, they still hate all wokeness, and they still want the U.S. to become a white religious nation.

And they'll go back to hiding their bigotry like they did before 2016.

The three of you all underestimate former cult members.
1) It takes courage and quite a bit of willpower to make a clean break with the teachings of a cult, but many of the people who do question everything they used to believe in as cultists. It is not as if former members of Christian cults all go looking for a new guru to follow, and it's not as if they just turn to another version of Christianity. Many Atheists have made a clean break with whatever Christian cult they grew up with.

also, we should be under no illusion that the MAGA disciples will seek reintegration with the Moderate Mainstream.

Reintegration with the Moderate Mainstream – if that is what they came from? Well, some of them probably will, but I hope that it will be a minority of the former MAGA disciples. After all, the Moderate Mainstream isn't as moderate as they would pretend to be. Look at the ISF members who claim to be centrists, for instance.

The fantasies of firmly establishing "what Wrongs were committed and who committed them," a "Truth&Reconciliation Commission" and "mandatory education" sound too much like the concentration camps MAGA dreamed of.

It is not as if Democrats are any good at criticizing fascism. If they were, they would have done so when the Tea Party started, but instead they tried to use the Cheneys to appeal to the fascists and turn the Democratic Party into a slightly more moderate version of the GOP, i.e. fascism light.

As for the idea that former MAGA cultists will necessarily remain racists, there is not reason to expect that to happen. When they leave MAGA, they are probably already doubting Trump's scapegoat narrative, i.e. that blacks and immigrants are to blame for everything that's wrong with the USA. They may even have understood that immigrants don't eat pets and that the wealth of the USA doesn't end up in the pockets of poor colored people. Many of them seem to have understood the message that AOC and Bernie Sanders were sending with their Fighting Oligarchy tour, which I think was the turning point, the spark that ignited the resentment of ordinary people.

Watching Musk, Bezos and the other billionaire donors at the inauguration of the guy who was supposed to be their revenge against the 'elites' must have made many working-class MAGA members feel like the animals watching the pigs fraternize with the farmer in Orwell's novel:

Animal Farm: Plot summary (Wikipedia)
Napoleon holds a dinner party for the pigs and newly allied human farmers. The other farm animals, who have not been invited, gather at the window to watch. He abolishes the practice of the revolutionary traditions and restores the property's name to "Manor Farm". He explains to the guests that, contrary to what has been told the animals of the farm, the "lesser" animals are working more hours and receiving less food; a practice the other farmers commend and plan to institute with their own farms. The men and pigs start playing cards, quickly descending into conflict when both sides cheat. When the animals outside look at the pigs and men, they find they have become indistinguishable from one another.

 

[dann]

... Plenty of people were misled, lied to, mistaken, and so forth. ...

Indeed! Much like when we're dealing with any other cult, it's important to distinguish between the misled and the misleaders.

 

[Mojo]

As for the idea that former MAGA cultists will necessarily remain racists, there is not reason to expect that to happen. When they leave MAGA, they are probably already doubting Trump's scapegoat narrative, i.e. that blacks and immigrants are to blame for everything that's wrong with the USA.

I suspect that many of them accepted that narrative because they were racists.

 

[Jim_MDP]

I suspect that many of them accepted that narrative because they were racists.

Indeed.
I feel dann doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the American Bible Belter.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

dann, maybe look up what a Truth and Reconciliation commission is ?
Clearly, US education is focusing on the wrong things when anti democratic tendencies are not recognized and rejected.
The Casus Trump is one everyone needs to learn from.

Looks like you don't want to stop the next Trump if it requires any effort or change

 

[Flo]

I suspect that many of them accepted that narrative because they were racists.

Most former adepts to a movement, religious or political will, once disappointed by the leadership, merely switch their allegiance to another they'll claim is different, and will deliver on its promises.
It will however be similar in that it'll offer them mostly the same justifications for their various reasons to have adhered to the former movement.

It would be naive to think that a racist will suddenly start loving his Somali or Mexican neighbours just because he's realised Trump has deceived him. He'll rather turn to some other big mouth who will validate his prejudices but promise he won't do whatever Trump has done that has infuriated his supporters …

 

[dann]

I don't doubt that many of the people who joined MAGA did so because MAGA embraced racism. Others joined because they were already sexists, and they joined for the same reason: they felt represented by MAGA.
However, I do doubt that those racists are the ones who are now joining the "Leaving MAGA" support groups mentioned in the MS NOW YouTube video in post 1,550. Why would they?
Others may leave MAGA for other reasons, for instance the groypers and similar individuals who don't think MAGA is racist and sexist enough, but they are not likely to join a "Leaving MAGA" support group.
What I have been saying all the time, in this thread and others, is that we have to DISTINGUISH!
I am not saying that each and every MAGA member was misled. Some of them obviously weren't. To some of them, MAGA promised the fulfillment of a life-long dream!
I am saying that we should distinguish between those who were and those who weren't misled, same as when we're dealing with any other cult.

The MS NOW video on YouTube doesn't mention racism. However, there is this about sexism:

5:52--> So just to add a little bit more detail to that, one of the people you saw in that group for a long time was deep in the online trad wife subculture, one of the women you saw on that group.
She actually believed in household voting, like the idea that women shouldn't vote, instead their husbands should vote on their behalf. That's how deep some of these people go. So extracting themselves from that is difficult.
The thing that I think is really, really interesting about this, just a detail, given the election results in New York.
A lot of these folks, when they stopped voting for Trump, they didn't go to conventional Democrats.
They went towards social, uh, toward democratic socialists.
One of them is campaigning for Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan. They're huge Mamdani fans, right?
So there's really interesting, uh, dynamic going on.

Some of them were misled by the media bubbles they were in. One of them :

6:54--> They made me watch a documentary on January 6th. And I didn't even know what happened on January 6th prior to ...? documentary. And I wrote to him and I said, "Did that really happen?" And he was, like, "Where have you been?"

(I have a hard time hearing what she's saying and so does the subtitle engineering entity.)

Some of you may find find their ignorance inexcusable, but give them a break! Some people actually are ignorant, but the media manipulation has been extensive, and they don't all live in areas where somebody might have pointed out the truth to them.
That's what it means to be in a cult. It shouldn't be unexpected to people at the ISF.

 

[Susheel]

The leaving MAGA crowd are still racists who are just mad that racism is also chewing up their face. The would be perfectly happy if Trump saw to it that others' faces continue to be eaten. However, they are also too dumb to realise that Trump doesn't care about anything...he just needs his money ad feeling of superiority.

 

[Darat]

Most former adepts to a movement, religious or political will, once disappointed by the leadership, merely switch their allegiance to another they'll claim is different, and will deliver on its promises.
It will however be similar in that it'll offer them mostly the same justifications for their various reasons to have adhered to the former movement.

It would be naive to think that a racist will suddenly start loving his Somali or Mexican neighbours just because he's realised Trump has deceived him. He'll rather turn to some other big mouth who will validate his prejudices but promise he won't do
whatever Trump has done that has infuriated his supporters …

Which was start a war in Iran. That seems to be by far the main reason for most who have dropped the Trump part of MAGA. There is zero evidence that they are concerned with anything else to do with MAGA.

 

[dann]

The leaving MAGA crowd are still racists who are just mad that racism is also chewing up their face. The would be perfectly happy if Trump saw to it that others' faces continue to be eaten. However, they are also too dumb to realise that Trump doesn't care about anything...he just needs his money ad feeling of superiority.

You make the mistake I'm warning against: "The leaving MAGA crowd" are not a homogenous crowd. Each and every one of them has their own reasons for leaving, and they are not the same. There are some like the ones you are talking about, and I mentioned them.
But it's stupid to treat them as a homogenous crowd. It's stupid to think they are all the same, and you have no real reason to think that they are.
"What I have been saying all the time, in this thread and others, is that we have to DISTINGUISH!"

 

[dann]

Which was start a war in Iran. That seems to be by far the main reason for most who have dropped the Trump part of MAGA. There is zero evidence that they are concerned with anything else to do with MAGA.

So where is your evidence that the only think they are concerned with is the war in Iran?
It is not something that was mentioned in the MS NOW video about the Leaving-Trump'ers.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The are few things more pathetic than men watching Trad Wife content and thinking they might have a partner like that - it's literally OnlyFans for conservatives.
What is more pathetic is women wanting to be one in an actual relationship

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Which was start a war in Iran. That seems to be by far the main reason for most who have dropped the Trump part of MAGA. There is zero evidence that they are concerned with anything else to do with MAGA.

Like the russians who are finally getting angry with the war now that they're being hit by rockets, running out of gas, and having their Internet taken away. Not exactly a come-to-Jesus moment, more of a 'hey, I thought this would just hurt those other people, not me!'

 

[dann]

Reality Hits Trump Supporters Like a Truck and They're LOSING IT (TYT on YouTube, June 27, 2026 – 25 min.)
While all of our lives continue to get materially worse under Donald Trump's regime, some MAGA voters across the country, even some who actively campaigned to put him in power, are waking up to their decision and voicing their regret about their support of the MAGA agenda. Rick Strom breaks it down.

4:03--> Host on C-Span: And what do you feel? That's really interesting. What do you feel or what was the the straw that broke the camel's back this time around? Was it the war? Is it ...
Three-time Trump voter: I don't think it's one thing. It's been a cumulative process. You know, he was going to lower prices on day one. He was going to do this on day one. Only he could fix all this stuff.
And uh now I understand how somebody like Adolf Hitler was able to brainwash millions of people.
TYT host: The three-time Trump voter, you heard right here, compared POTUS to Hitler.

 

[Planigale]

The are few things more pathetic than men watching Trad Wife content and thinking they might have a partner like that - it's literally OnlyFans for conservatives.
What is more pathetic is women wanting to be one in an actual relationship

We prefer the term 'soft girl' or 'hemmaflickvän'.

Sweden’s ‘soft girl’ trend that celebrates women quitting work

Sweden has a reputation for strong gender equality, but some young women are giving up their jobs.

www.bbc.co.uk

Softgirltrenden: Vilma har förverkligat sin dröm – är hemmaflickvän

Att vara soft-girl och hemmaflickvän trendar på sociala medier. En livsstil där tjejer lämnar yrkeslivet för att vara hemma, ta hand om hemmet och fokusera på att må bra. Vilma Larsson är en av dessa.

www.svt.se

 

[The Great Zaganza]

That's not what a Trad Wife is.
Trad Wife Content is a business of self-marketing, selling online content and merch, of a fake idyllic "family life". Trad Wives usually make way more money than their husbands, who rarely appear in the videos.
As with OnlyFans, the attractions comes from making the viewers think that this woman who spend an hour+ on makeup&hair to bake some cookies on camera might actually be your wife.
It is all fake as hell. Most of it is also heavily promoted and supported by the LDS.

 

[steenkh]

We prefer the term 'soft girl' or 'hemmaflickvän'.

Sweden’s ‘soft girl’ trend that celebrates women quitting work

Sweden has a reputation for strong gender equality, but some young women are giving up their jobs.

www.bbc.co.uk

Softgirltrenden: Vilma har förverkligat sin dröm – är hemmaflickvän

Att vara soft-girl och hemmaflickvän trendar på sociala medier. En livsstil där tjejer lämnar yrkeslivet för att vara hemma, ta hand om hemmet och fokusera på att må bra. Vilma Larsson är en av dessa.

www.svt.se

I would have thought that to be very difficult, because modern life in the Scandinavian countries is so expensive that two salaries are needed to pay for villa, Volvo, and the obligatory dog.