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Face, meet leopard. Leopard, meet face.

turingtest said:
We've actually gotten to the point where Trump could shoot a MAGA cultist on 5th Avenue, and, as they lay dying, they would reach up and tug on his pants leg while gasping "I know it's not your fault...."
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Newspaper headline: 'Marilyn's husband was gunned down by Drumpf on 5th Avenue. She still supports him.'
 
turingtest said:
We've actually gotten to the point where Trump could shoot a MAGA cultist on 5th Avenue, and, as they lay dying, they would reach up and tug on his pants leg while gasping "I know it's not your fault...."
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Didn't we pretty much already have that with Dick Cheney? He shot someone in the face with a shotgun and they apologized to him for the problems it caused.
 
A reminder about the two different kinds of Trump voters:
Trump Gets NIGHTMARE UPDATE…in DEEP-RED State?! (MeidasTouch on YouTube, Sep 2, 2025 - 15:41 min.)
Donald Trump’s failures on “kitchen-table” issues like gas and egg prices may finally be waking Americans up to his deeper project: building a police state to remain in power. Even in deep-red Montana, where Trump won by nearly 20 points, attitudes are shifting—and I spoke with Ryan Busse, former Democratic nominee for governor, about what that means for the rest of the country.
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4:54--> It's easy for those of us who follow politics and who are dedicated to, you know, being in elections, to caring so much that we get up and read the news every day and watch podcasts like this, it's easy for us to say, "Geez, didn't you see this coming?" Like, he told you he was going to tear up everything. He told you he was going to fire X, Y, and Z. He told, like, "Yeah, he did."
But most of the people who, the voters that we're talking about, even though they technically voted for that side of the aisle, they didn't vote for this. And by this, I mean they're not tuned into politics like you and I are. They didn't know or glossed over the sorts of policy impacts, the sort of gutting of Medicaid, the Project 2025, like, that was just all, you know, like I say, it's like Charlie Brown's teacher talking like "wah-wah-wah" like they do. They don't, they don't hear that stuff. And I know that's frustrating to those of us who do.
Now, the people on the far right, the MAGA diehards. Yeah, they heard it. They like it. They want ICE masked scaring US citizens, ripping apart families. They want that. They want Medicaid gutted. They want people to go without healthcare. Like, so yes, they did vote for that. They want tariffs until the tariffs hit them.
But the large group of people in the middle - and I and I know people say, "Well, there's really no crossover voters anymore. There's really no..." I just don't buy that. There's a bunch of people who casually voted for Trump, who, in the past, have casually voted for Democrats. And the things that Trump is doing now are impacting these people.
And we have to make sure they understand why their healthcare is going away, why tariffs are killing the economy. They are casual voters. They don't tune in to this.
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dann said:
A reminder about the two different kinds of Trump voters:
4:54--> It's easy for those of us who follow politics and who are dedicated to, you know, being in elections, to caring so much that we get up and read the news every day and watch podcasts like this, it's easy for us to say, "Geez, didn't you see this coming?" Like, he told you he was going to tear up everything. He told you he was going to fire X, Y, and Z. He told, like, "Yeah, he did."
But most of the people who, the voters that we're talking about, even though they technically voted for that side of the aisle, they didn't vote for this. And by this, I mean they're not tuned into politics like you and I are. They didn't know or glossed over the sorts of policy impacts, the sort of gutting of Medicaid, the Project 2025, like, that was just all, you know, like I say, it's like Charlie Brown's teacher talking like "wah-wah-wah" like they do. They don't, they don't hear that stuff. And I know that's frustrating to those of us who do.
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Here is the problem with that particular argument...

Ok, some Trump supporters "didn't vote for that" (meaning things like gutting medicaid) because they were "ignorant".

But then, that raises 2 questions....

- What DID they vote for trump for? If they voted for him because of one bad policy without understanding another bad policy, then they are still evil. "I didn't want him to gut medicaid, I just wanted him to sentence hatian immigrants to jail for eating dogs" doesn't really make them look sympathetic.

- Even if they did not know about how certain policies might affect them, they MUST have had an idea how his first term went. Not understanding his tariff policies? Ok, if you're ignorant that might be understandable. But things like "Trump tried to overthrown democracy the first time around" should be automatically disqualifying.
 
Looking for ways to let Trump voters off the hook for things they explicitly voted for continues to be a pointless circle jerk.

I maintain my deep desire for every single one of them to experience the effects of what they explicitly voted for harder and more painfully than the rest of us.
 
While I think the responsibility is theirs in the end, I think it's probably a dead end to suggest they voted explicitly for many of the policies that thinking persons see as obvious consequences of their vote. I doubt they thought about it or cared about it. Whether blinded by the lies of the right wing profiteers and snollygosters that the alternative was ruinous rebellion (note that Kristy the Klown has asserted that the intervention in LA prevented it from utter and complete destruction), or the panicked pleas of priests and evangelists that moral ruin will consume them if they don't outlaw abortion and gayness (Remember that some truly believe hurricanes are God's punishment for allowing sin), those people are responsible in their own way, but as fools and followers, not engineers. Once you've decided that your cause is worth any price, the details of the price are irrelevant. Remember the basic problem of the banality of evil. You can criticize and loathe those who prefer not to think, but you cannot analyze the contents of an empty box.
 
Segnosaur said:
Here is the problem with that particular argument...

Ok, some Trump supporters "didn't vote for that" (meaning things like gutting medicaid) because they were "ignorant".

But then, that raises 2 questions....

- What DID they vote for trump for? If they voted for him because of one bad policy without understanding another bad policy, then they are still evil. "I didn't want him to gut medicaid, I just wanted him to sentence hatian immigrants to jail for eating dogs" doesn't really make them look sympathetic.

- Even if they did not know about how certain policies might affect them, they MUST have had an idea how his first term went. Not understanding his tariff policies? Ok, if you're ignorant that might be understandable. But things like "Trump tried to overthrown democracy the first time around" should be automatically disqualifying.
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Just like with nazi Germany, when the madness stops you'll find a lot of voters parrotting "I never voted for this. How could I have known?" when all along during the regime they're at best disinterested in facing the evils they see every day.

There'll always be a lot of "good apolitical burghers" around when the dust settles.
 
Segnosaur said:
Here is the problem with that particular argument...

Ok, some Trump supporters "didn't vote for that" (meaning things like gutting medicaid) because they were "ignorant".

But then, that raises 2 questions....

- What DID they vote for trump for? If they voted for him because of one bad policy without understanding another bad policy, then they are still evil. "I didn't want him to gut medicaid, I just wanted him to sentence hatian immigrants to jail for eating dogs" doesn't really make them look sympathetic.

- Even if they did not know about how certain policies might affect them, they MUST have had an idea how his first term went. Not understanding his tariff policies? Ok, if you're ignorant that might be understandable. But things like "Trump tried to overthrown democracy the first time around" should be automatically disqualifying.
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The really weird thing for me is that they voted for a rapist - as the judge said he was - I really don't know how people got past that to vote for him. Now perhaps if both candidates were rapists I would have had to hold my nose and vote for one of them but since that wasn't the case that one fact should have excluded him from anyone's consideration.
 
Segnosaur said:
Here is the problem with that particular argument...

Ok, some Trump supporters "didn't vote for that" (meaning things like gutting medicaid) because they were "ignorant".

But then, that raises 2 questions....

- What DID they vote for trump for? If they voted for him because of one bad policy without understanding another bad policy, then they are still evil. "I didn't want him to gut medicaid, I just wanted him to sentence hatian immigrants to jail for eating dogs" doesn't really make them look sympathetic.

- Even if they did not know about how certain policies might affect them, they MUST have had an idea how his first term went. Not understanding his tariff policies? Ok, if you're ignorant that might be understandable. But things like "Trump tried to overthrown democracy the first time around" should be automatically disqualifying.
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Also, if they didn't follow politics, that's no one's fault but their own. You also don't have to pay that close attention to realize what a horrible person and leader Dump is.
 
Darat said:
The really weird thing for me is that they voted for a rapist - as the judge said he was - (...)
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They don't believe it. They think the judge hates him and is crooked and cooked up the whole thing out of a false accuser who also hates him. It could happen to you!

And they think anyone who doesn't think it's very likely that Hillary was having her staff murdered or whatever is a blind fool who can't see the facts in front of their face.

Oh and the justice system is crooked against Republicans and that's why they won't be charged for obvious murder but Trump had to go do all that courtroom nonsense for no reason.
 
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Lithrael said:
They don't believe it. They think the judge hates him and is crooked and cooked up the whole thing out of a false accuser who also hates him. It could happen to you!

And they think anyone who doesn't think it's very likely that Hillary was having her staff murdered or whatever is a blind fool who can't see the facts in front of their face.

Oh and the justice system is crooked against Republicans and that's why they won't be charged for obvious murder but Trump had to go do all that courtroom nonsense for no reason.
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The voters have the same fundamental problem as Trump himself: they decide first what they want to be true, then believe whatever it takes to make that possible.
 
bruto said:
While I think the responsibility is theirs in the end, I think it's probably a dead end to suggest they voted explicitly for many of the policies that thinking persons see as obvious consequences of their vote. I doubt they thought about it or cared about it. Whether blinded by the lies of the right wing profiteers and snollygosters that the alternative was ruinous rebellion (note that Kristy the Klown has asserted that the intervention in LA prevented it from utter and complete destruction), or the panicked pleas of priests and evangelists that moral ruin will consume them if they don't outlaw abortion and gayness (Remember that some truly believe hurricanes are God's punishment for allowing sin), those people are responsible in their own way, but as fools and followers, not engineers. Once you've decided that your cause is worth any price, the details of the price are irrelevant. Remember the basic problem of the banality of evil. You can criticize and loathe those who prefer not to think, but you cannot analyze the contents of an empty box.
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All valid points, but the end result is the same either way.

Trump said he would do this, they voted for him, and now he’s doing it. They chose it and they should bear every bit of consequence for their choice.

Everything else is window dressing.
 
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