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Merged Ex CIA Agent: Roswell Really Happened

One thing to keep in mind about Roswell is that the first book about the alleged UFO crash was published in 1980. 1947-1980 is a long time for people to mis-remember, embelish or simply make things up.
The first book published was The Roswell Incident. This was apparently the first mention of Brazel being detained.
Additionally, various accounts of witness intimidation were included, in particular reports of the incarceration of Mac Brazel, who reported the debris in the first place. (These reports came from relatives and others as Brazel had died years earlier.)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident#_
 
My favorite bit connected to this so far, from Grant Cameron:
"...this is a setup from the CIA.”
“Obama, I think, is behind it. This would not happen unless Obama had approved this.”
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From a recent interview on the web series Spacing Out!, quoted on Openminds.tv.
 
Wolrab said:
Col. Corso
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso
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Corso claimed that the invention of Kevlar (among other technologies) was indirectly helped by retro-engineering.

I checked out the history of Kevlar, which was invented by Stephanie Louise Kwolek. She was experimenting with various polymers, in this case while working for DuPont, in 1964. This research was motivated in anticipation of a gasoline shortage, she with her team were searching for a new lightweight, yet strong fibre, something even stronger than Nylon, for use in tyres.

The polymers she had been working with at the time, were poly-p-Phenylene-terephthalate and polybenzamide. These formed liquid crystal while in solution, which was new to polymers at the time. Kwolek thought that a solution she made following an observation of its initial visual properties was worth testing for tensile strength, instead of being discarded. Apparently, there was reluctance on the part of the team involved with the spinneret equipment to process the material. There was a fear that the "turbid" nature of the co-polymer would block the very fine holes for the production of the fine fibres.Eventually, the risk was taken, and to everyone's surprise, it processed very well without a problem. It had high strength, much better than nylon, good low temperature resistance, and did not decompose up to around 450 degrees. Unfortunately, it does degrade when exposed to uv light, so in any exterior applications, it has to be protected from sunlight.

If Corso "indirectly" influenced the invention of Kevlar, then Ms Kwolek would know, as the reported and accredited inventor, and at the age of 84, she is still alive to be interviewed. Whether or not she would ever admit to being "helped" directly or indirectly, by Corso, remains to be seen.
 
Mack (or Mac) Brazel, on whose farm the Mogul balloon wreckage came to rest, was related to the man who killed Pat Garrett (who in turn killed Billy the Kid). IIRC (and I have no immediate source to hand), Mack was not detained, and stories that he was warned not to talk "or else" are all second-hand and some years after the fact.
 
My first steps into skepticism was when Clinton had the Roswell files released, which revealed that it was just a balloon. I immediately knew the believers would shout "See, the government is covering up. They don't tell us it was a flying saucer!"
 
Spektator said:
Mack was not detained, and stories that he was warned not to talk "or else" are all second-hand and some years after the fact.
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Floyd Proctor (a neighbour of Brazel's) confirmed, when interviewed by Moore that:

".....Brazel had been kept in military custody for about a week, after which he would not talk about the event, preferring instead to change the subject or briefly repeat the balloon story if pressed. Proctor also described being in Roswell with another neighbor, L. D. Sparks, during the period of Brazel's detention."

Now I assume from your post above, this has been deemed to be untrue, but when and how?
 
Explorer said:
Floyd Proctor (a neighbour of Brazel's) confirmed, when interviewed by Moore that:

".....Brazel had been kept in military custody for about a week, after which he would not talk about the event, preferring instead to change the subject or briefly repeat the balloon story if pressed. Proctor also described being in Roswell with another neighbor, L. D. Sparks, during the period of Brazel's detention."

Now I assume from your post above, this has been deemed to be untrue, but when and how?
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Second or third-hand anecdotes 30-40 years afterward isn't very solid evidence.
 
Accidental Martyr said:
Second or third-hand anecdotes 30-40 years afterward isn't very solid evidence.
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Yes I agree, which is why I said above that administrative records would corroborate this kind of witness statement. The statement is not a paranormal claim, it is about something relatively easily verifiable with hard evidence.
 
Explorer said:
Yes I agree, which is why I said above that administrative records would corroborate this kind of witness statement. The statement is not a paranormal claim, it is about something relatively easily verifiable with hard evidence.
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Which kind of makes you wonder why it hasn't been. UFO proponents have had 32 years since the story was first popularized to do that.

Also notable is the fact that contemporary newspaper articles containing statements from Brazel himself make no mention of any week-long (or even any) detention period, and the description of the debris given by Brazel to the Roswell newspaper at the time said it consisted of "tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks" along with a quantity of "rubber [that] was smoky gray in color".

Hardly the stuff of interstellar alien spacecraft.
 
One problem is that I don't remember where I read the interviews, but somewhere Mack Brazel's daughter Bess (or Bessie?) and his son Bill were questioned. Neither remembered their dad's being detained, though they both said he was questioned by MP's.
 
The Roswell story is based almost entirely on anecdotes collected at least 30 years after the incident. The debris collected and contemporary descriptions and accounts point to the object being nothing more than a balloon. The study of the incredible amount of myth generated from the incident is pretty fascinating, though.
 
SezMe said:
Friedman? Indirectly. A previous link was to a web page that had a video link. That link was an video interview with the credulous author of a book about Roswell. That video made reference to Stan.

Pretty direct, eh? :rolleyes: :)
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Stanton Friedman was one of the first people to get the Roswell ball rolling in 1978 when he interviewed Jesse Marcel.
 
As to links to specific beliefs about retro-engineering, I have none. Things that have been floated include jet-engine technology, computers in general, advanced materials (like kevlar and also carbon fiber composites) cell-phones...
All of course either in development well before the incident (EVERYBODY was working on jet engines even prior to WWII) or a direct development of already-existing technologies.

I take it from reading the comments that some on this thread are not familiar with project Mogul and the extensive investigation done by Skeptical Inquirer.
Essentially, at that time, we had no way to observe or monitor Soviet nuclear testing. No U-2, no SR-71, no sattelites.
So... Someone in the intelligence community thought they could listen. Project Mogul involved sending aloft arrays of weather baloons of standard manufacture with a payload of a "radiosonde" (listening device) in a construct made of balsa wood and polymer sheet material. The polymer sheet was actually supplied by a company that made the stuff for inflatable balloons, which resulted in the early reports of "weird symbols" on the stuff.
This material was pretty new at the time, and likely rural folks in Texan hadn't seen any of it.
The first individuals finding and then responding to the "crash" site described exactly this; a collection of sticks and plastic-y material and some electronic components. As I recall the stuff was picked up by a couple of Air Force types and hauled off on a jeep. No truck was required.
When it was found to be part of the top-secret Mogul project, the entire incident was classified. There was no indication that the intelligence guys and the Air Force concocted the "crashed UFO" idea, but they were certainly content to "let it roll" for many years.
 
Bikewer said:
When it was found to be part of the top-secret Mogul project, the entire incident was classified. There was no indication that the intelligence guys and the Air Force concocted the "crashed UFO" idea, but they were certainly content to "let it roll" for many years.
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A cover up was surely not necessary for a man-made balloon, a Mogul one or not. Nobody would have known the true purpose of the balloon, as no nuke tests had actually been carried out by the Russians at that time. The continuation of the explanation of the find as a new type of weather balloon would surely have sufficed.

As for the miitary not concocting the UFO idea, read the Wiki entry stating this (with a source reference):

"On July 8, 1947, the Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) public information officer Walter Haut in Roswell, New Mexico, issued a press release[3] stating that personnel from the field's 509th Bomb Group had recovered a crashed "flying disk" from a ranch near Roswell, sparking intense media interest."

It was retired USAF ex-Major Marcel when interviewed, several decades lately, who said the find was "not of this Earth". So the military had a huge role in the ET explanation.
 
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ANTPogo said:
Which kind of makes you wonder why it hasn't been. UFO proponents have had 32 years since the story was first popularized to do that.

Also notable is the fact that contemporary newspaper articles containing statements from Brazel himself make no mention of any week-long (or even any) detention period, and the description of the debris given by Brazel to the Roswell newspaper at the time said it consisted of "tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks" along with a quantity of "rubber [that] was smoky gray in color".

Hardly the stuff of interstellar alien spacecraft.
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Well that still leaves open my question though, doesn't it? It seems that those on either side of the debate have not checked the witness statements on this matter. It is important, in my view, as it provides some indication of the degree of paranoia on the part of the miltary, at that time.

Brazel, had to be "detained" as some point for any kind of interrogation to take place, and we know that he underwent questioning. How long that detention was, is simply my question.

The material found did seem terrestial as you say at first inspection, and agreed not the stuff of any kind of rigid and robust aeronautic vehicle that one would expect, so what was the point of Haut, the RAAF PR man, giving the "disc" press release? It just seems a very odd thing to do, unless it was part of a security smokescreen, which really was rather redundant under these circumstances.
 
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