Europe is not a nation!

[Darat]

Pish posh! Give it up!

I do not know what standards they used. I assume language had something to do with it. DOn't forget that Russia and USSR was in the habit of acquiring and absorbing territory and various people for centuries.

That's why I was interested. For instance I doubt very much anyone in the UK would claim that their nationality was Northumbrian, even though that was a "kingdom" until a thousand years ago (give or take a few centuries).

I find it fascinating that some people seem to be able to personally relate to these "historic" categories.

 

[renata]

That's why I was interested. For instance I doubt very much anyone in the UK would claim that their nationality was Northumbrian, even though that was a "kingdom" until a thousand years ago (give or take a few centuries).

I find it fascinating that some people seem to be able to personally relate to these "historic" categories.

Several things on this. For one thing, Russia was enormous. I mean really huge. Therefore, various nationalities (tribes?) lived relatively undisturbed even when their territory was absorbed. They had their customs, their language and such more or less intact. Witness Yakutia, for example, or Abkhazia. So the time for integration is less than in UK.

Also, nationality was a big deal in Russia and subsequently in the USSR. It opened and closed doors. It was listed on the infamous fifth line of all passports and national IDs. Furthermore, various rulers liked to pit one nationality against another in order to keep one overarching control over warring factions- Armenia and Azerbajian, in particular Nagorny Karabakh is an excellent example.

I suspect it is a combination of all these factors that makes particular nationalities in former USSR so distinct from each other.

 

[Bluegill]

Since I learned it in high school, I've been partial to the term "Estadounidense" (a citizen of Los Estados Unidos) to refer to my countrymen and me. ¡Bueno!

 

[Bjorn]

Since I learned it in high school, I've been partial to the term "Estadounidense" (a citizen of Los Estados Unidos) to refer to my countrymen and me. ¡Bueno!

Unfortunately 'Estados Unidos' won't do the trick - I think the official name of Brazil is 'Estados Unidos do Brasil', and the country is about the size of the 48-state lump .....

 

[Bjorn]

Saying 'Americans' when one means 'US citizens' is technically incorrect, but so what? The purpose of language is communcation, and (if you'll pardon the circular logic) only needs to be precise when precision is necessary.

I agree, and I'm never in doubt when members post 'Americans'. They are referring to people living in the USA.

For 'European', however, I'm not so sure. 'European' in daily language (at least in Europe) certainly doesn't refer only to those living in the EU, and never did.

 

[Dorian Gray]

It’s a pet peeve of mine but will people please stop using the term “Europe” as if means a nation or state?

There is no country, nation or state called “Europe”!

na·tion P Pronunciation Key (nshn) n.
A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country.
The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out.

state P Pronunciation Key (stt) n.
A specific mode of government.
A body politic, especially one constituting a nation.
One of the more or less internally autonomous territorial and political units composing a federation under a sovereign government.

coun·try P Pronunciation Key (kntr) n. pl. coun·tries
A nation or state.
The territory of a nation or state; land.
The people of a nation or state; populace

These definitions from Dictionary.com say otherwise. You Europeans........

 

[Bjorn]

Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

These definitions from Dictionary.com say otherwise. You Europeans........

Which of the definitions do you feel fits Europe? It does not have a "single, usually independent government", it isn't "internally autonomous territorial and political units composing a federation under a sovereign government" nor is it a "nation or state".

You Dorians ...

 

[Dorian Gray]

Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

Which of the definitions do you feel fits Europe? It does not have a "single, usually independent government", it isn't "internally autonomous territorial and political units composing a federation under a sovereign government" nor is it a "nation or state".

You Dorians ...

So your argument is basically "No it isn't"? Did you watch a Monty Python sketch recently?

 

[Darat]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

So your argument is basically "No it isn't"? Did you watch a Monty Python sketch recently?

Well it is hard to give a better reason why Europe isn't a nation then the simple fact it doesn;t have any of the defining qualities of a nation!

With apologies:

C: 'Ello, Miss?

Owner: What do you mean "miss"?

C: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

O: We're closin' for lunch.

C: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this Nation what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

O: Oh yes, the, uh, the Europe...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

C: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's not a Nation, that's what's wrong with it!

O: No, no, 'e's uh,...it’s becoming one.

C: Look, matey, I know a Nation when I see one, and I'm not looking at one right now.

O: No no he's is a Nation, just not yet'! Remarkable Nation, Europe, has nothing in common with any other Nation! Beautiful countryside tho’!

C: The countryside don't enter into it. It's not a Nation.

O: Nononono, no, no! 'E's soon will be a nation!

C: All right then, if he'll soon be a nation', I'll check to find out!

(shouting at the continent)

'Ello, Mister Europe the Nation! I've got a lovely fresh foreign policy for you...(owner hits the cage)

O: There, see he looked!

C: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the continent!

O: I never!!

C: Yes, you did!

O: I never, never did anything...

C: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO EUROPE!!!!!

C: Now that's what I call not a Nation!.

 

[Bjorn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

So your argument is basically "No it isn't"? Did you watch a Monty Python sketch recently?

I hope you're not serious? If you are, you need Europe 101:

Some countries in the area known as Europe have formed a union called the EU for short (like, say, the USA did in America).

A lot of countries in the same area (you know, Europe) have not become members, either because they don't want to or because they haven't been invited/accepted.

Ergo: Europe is not a nation, state nor country. Pretty much the same way 'America' isn't.

Is your argument simply that it is because it is? If not, I suggest that you go back to your definitions and show how one or more of them fit Europe ..... to repeat:

Europe does not have a "single, usually independent government", it isn't "internally autonomous territorial and political units composing a federation under a sovereign government" nor is it a "nation or state".

 

[CapelDodger]

Bloody Welsh.

Daniad ffiaidd.

 

[crimresearch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

I hope you're not serious? If you are, you need Europe 101:
Some countries in the area known as Europe have formed a union called the EU for short (like, say, the USA did in America).
A lot of countries in the same area (you know, Europe) have not become members, either because they don't want to or because they haven't been invited/accepted.
Ergo: Europe is not a nation, state nor country. Pretty much the same way 'America' isn't.
.

Good...now let us know when it is safe to refer to someone or some place as 'Asian'.

 

[CFLarsen]

Daniad ffiaidd.

Flattery will get you nowhere!

 

[CapelDodger]

Flattery will get you nowhere!

The opposite got the Welsh nowhere as well. Emigration was the key, something they learned from the Saxons and Danes, but it's pretty obvious when you think about it. (The Welsh referred to marauding Scandinavians generally as Danes, which is cute. So shall I in future.) Consider (a) how many Welshmen signed the Declaration of Independence (b) Wales has never been invaded by the US (c) Wales is not on the axis-of-evil menu. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

[Bjorn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

Good...now let us know when it is safe to refer to someone or some place as 'Asian'.

Well, if that had been his thing .... but it was, unfortunately for him, to show that 'Europe' is a nation.

Which it still isn't, much like Asia isn't one.

 

[Luciana]

Unfortunately 'Estados Unidos' won't do the trick - I think the official name of Brazil is 'Estados Unidos do Brasil', and the country is about the size of the 48-state lump .....

It was "Estados Unidos do Brasil" once. Nowadays it's "República Federativa do Brasil". And our territory is larger than the 48 contiguous states.

Since we are here... South America isn't a nation either.

Most importantly, you should not confuse Brazil with the other, hispanic, countries.

Brazil speaks Portuguese, was colonized by the Portuguse, is a secular state, has lots of African influences, indian nations different from the rest of the continent, has had a royal family, is very industrialized.

All the other countries speak Spanish, were colonized by the Spanish (and back then Spain and Portugal were rivals, so culture differed vastly), some countries are officially Catholic, fewer blacks, Aztec/Incans/Mayans, all republics since independence, mostly agrarian with small economies. In South America, the exceptions in colonization would be the Guyanas and Suriname. But, as a generalization, the above description is very accurate.

Culturally, we're worlds apart. Apparently, Catholicism would be a similarity, but in Brazil it has suffered so many African influences that varies greatly from other South and Central American countries. Food, music, customs... very, very little in common.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

Well it is hard to give a better reason why Europe isn't a nation then the simple fact it doesn;t have any of the defining qualities of a nation!

What makes you think that when someone says Europe, that they mean a nation? When I say it, I mean a geographical area.
I've never heard it called the Nation of Europe. Shall I give lat. & long. coordinates from now on?

 

[Iconoclast]

Suckers.

This is what you get when you allow other countries to share your continent.

 

[Darat]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

Good...now let us know when it is safe to refer to someone or some place as 'Asian'.

It's "safe" now, just as it is "safe" now to call someone a European. But all that does is to identify the continent they originate from or have adopted as their home.

 

[Darat]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Europe is not a nation!

What makes you think that when someone says Europe, that they mean a nation? When I say it, I mean a geographical area.
I've never heard it called the Nation of Europe. Shall I give lat. & long. coordinates from now on?

Which is how it should be used and is what I said in my OP.