Europe is not a nation!

[geni]

I tend to describe myself as european for 3 reasons:

1) considering my ansestory it is closer to the truth

2) It starts more arguments than calling myself british

3) it anoys all the people doing psycology surveys at my uni.

 

[Darat]

So when you refer to the US and use the term 'Americans', are you addressing the millions of African Americans, or the even larger number of Hispanics (some of whom are black), or the Native Americans, or Asians, or the women, or the millions of Muslims, or the Hindus and Buddhists, or the poor, the intellectuals, the artists and musicians....

Er yes of course. (Given my reluctance and attempts, not always successfully, to avoid the term American, since I would rather say USA citizen.)

Or are you just smearing the rest of us through identification with a small sub-set, such as wealthy and powerful White Anglo Saxon Protestant male powerbrokers?

Really don't understand your follow on point especially sine its a term you use:

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...=1870709931&highlight=American#post1870709931

[ underline by me]

…snip… Fast food is big business, and a lot of R&D money has gone into creating loyal (unquestioning?) customers...stretching the collective stomach of the American public provides for more sales growth down the road.
…snip…

Doesn't the USA have one national government that represents them? Didn't Condoleezza Rice recently become the Secretary of State and say "we must use American diplomacy to help create a balance of power in the world that favors freedom. And the time for diplomacy is now."?

To use the term "USA foreign policy" is an accurate and very specific identification of the government of the people who are known as USA/American citizens and the policies those people are represented by. However to say "European foreign policy" is an inaccurate and very unspecific identification of exactly what?

There is a country called the USA, it has government that can be accurately identified as the "USA government", that government has policies that can be accurately described as "USA policy", it has a standing army that can be identified as the “USA Army”, however there is no country called Europe, there is no government that can be called the "European government", therefore there are no policies that can be described as "European policy". Don’t you see the difference?

The fact that there are people that you (apparently) believe are disenfranchised in the USA does not have any bearing on whether or not the USA has a "USA government" or "USA policy", they exists regardless of any inequality or lack of representation (although I thought every competent adult could vote) of a particular group in the USA.

And finally this thread isn’t about USA citizens or American’s it’s about the sloppy use of “European”!

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

I'd like to clarify that as a true "Canuckian", no Canadian would refer to themselves as an "American" (or "Merkin"). Unless of course they were a citizen of the US in Canada, enjoying the free social medicine and low crime rate.

Charlie (in Las Vegas baby) Monoxide

 

[crimresearch]

"Doesn't the USA have one national government that represents them?"

Doesn't Europe have one federated governmental body that represents them, and writes their laws on how many condoms each fishing vessel must have on board, regardless of county
(oops, sorry, 'country' ) of origin?

One currency?

One defense force that will show up if a member is attacked?

Large Hispanic population in the south, and a bunch of pale people who talk funny eating lutefisk up north?

Aren't the various monarchs at pretty much the same level of authority, or even less than US governors?
Can't you whiz across the line between France and Germany just as easily as I can between Tennessee and Arkansas? (Or drive across?)

Of course there are differences, but Europe doesn't have to be an exact clone of the USA to be referred to in similar terms when for so many practical puposes, it is operating in the same manner.

 

[Darat]

"Doesn't the USA have one national government that represents them?"

Doesn't Europe have one federated governmental body that represents them, and writes their laws on how many condoms each fishing vessel must have on board, regardless of county
(oops, sorry, 'country' ) of origin?

No.

One currency?

No.

One defense force that will show up if a member is attacked?

No and "member" of what? The continent?

Aren't the various monarchs at pretty much the same level of authority, or even less than US governors?

No, some Monarchs have absolute powers, some have none at all, some have some limited powers, the majority of European countries do not have any form of established monarchy.

Can't you whiz across the line between France and Germany just as easily as I can between Tennessee and Arkansas? (Or drive across?)

No in the context of your question, yes in another sense.

Od course there are differences, but Europe doesn't have to be an exact clone of the USA to be referred to in similar terms when for so many practical puposes, it is operating in the same manner.

This is what I was meaning about the “misuse” of the word "European". It would seem that when you say "Europe" or "European" you are talking about the "European Union". The two are not the same, for instance you do realise that that the Russian Federation is a European country?

 

[CBL4]

Europe and European are frequently use interchangeably with EU and citizen of a nation that is a member of the EU (Coantisamoteu).

I agree that EU should be used instead of Europe but I do not have another word for the Coantisamoteu. We could use EUian but that is as clumsy as United Statians. I will admit the accuracy but I will never type it except ironically.

CBL

 

[Bjorn]

(Darat) "Doesn't the USA have one national government that represents them?"

(Crimresearch) Doesn't Europe have one federated governmental body that represents them, and writes their laws on how many condoms each fishing vessel must have on board, regardless of county
(oops, sorry, 'country' ) of origin?

One currency?

One defense force that will show up if a member is attacked?

No, 'Europe' doesn't have any of that. Neither does 'America'.

The USA and The EU .... that's another matter.

Large Hispanic population in the south, and a bunch of pale people who talk funny eating lutefisk up north?

Don't mess with my lutefish from Seattle, WA!

 

[hammegk]

It’s a pet peeve of mine but will people please stop using the term “Europe” as if means a nation or state?

If you ask nice, maybe the USA will let the Germans take care of that problem next time they try (unless the Islamofascists beat them to it).

 

[crimresearch]

Europe and European are frequently use interchangeably with EU and citizen of a nation that is a member of the EU (Coantisamoteu).

I agree that EU should be used instead of Europe but I do not have another word for the Coantisamoteu. We could use EUian but that is as clumsy as United Statians. I will admit the accuracy but I will never type it except ironically.

CBL

Well, that leaves 'EUronians', or 'EUtes', or a term I've used here before, 'Europlatz'.

 

[aerocontrols]

I know it must really annoy you....

No, it doesn't annoy me. I was using your words to illustrate a point, which is that the situations are not really that different.

Since you are using the term "americans" to describe citizens of the USA, perhaps you could tell us Europeans how we should refer to the same population group?

Obviously, there are two sets of rules in effect here....

I suggest you use 'Americans', like I do. I use it to refer to citizens of the US, and people who live on one of these two continents. Lots of people are going to use "Europeans" in the same way: referring to people who are inside the EU, and people who live on the European 'continent'. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my point.

MattJ

 

[CFLarsen]

I suggest you use 'Americans', like I do. I use it to refer to citizens of the US, and people who live on one of these two continents. Lots of people are going to use "Europeans" in the same way: referring to people who are inside the EU, and people who live on the European 'continent'. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my point.

I don't think I misunderstood it. In fact, it's hard to misunderstand your post:

Please, please do me a favor in future be a bit more careful about bandying around the term “America” and “American” and, unless you are meaning to refer to each and everyone of those 35 countries, avoid saying “America did this…..”

Should we still use "Americans" to describe US citizens?

 

[Darat]

Well, that leaves 'EUronians', or 'EUtes', or a term I've used here before, 'Europlatz'.

Or perhaps "European Union citizens"? Or EU citizens?

 

[renata]

Darat! Don't make me post all the times you used the words Europe, European, Europeans

Ok, just a taste

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...1870378556&highlight=Europeans#post1870378556

Then for 40 plus years Europeans kept the world on the brink of MAD because again we couldn?t tolerate our cultural differences.

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...1870666399&highlight=Europeans#post1870666399

Most of the messes outside the continent of Europe had nothing to do with the Europeans; it was the British that created them.

Oh, and please, people stop referring to former Soviet Union as Russians. Soviet Union had hundreds of nationalities, and only some of them were Russians. To assign that moniker to them is unbelievably sloppy.

 

[crimresearch]

Or perhaps "European Union citizens"? Or EU citizens?

Well, if it gets to a point where the use of the tem 'European', or 'American' causes so much confusion over what is meant that communication breaks down, perhaps we should look into the more unwieldy appelations.

 

[CFLarsen]

Oh, and please, people stop referring to former Soviet Union as Russians. Soviet Union had hundreds of nationalities, and only some of them were Russians. To assign that moniker to them is unbelievably sloppy.

So, what should we call you?

 

[Darat]

Darat! Don't make me post all the times you used the words Europe, European, Europeans

I’m not against the word “Europe” just against it being used incorrectly to refer to some mythical nation.

Ok, just a taste

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...1870378556&highlight=Europeans#post1870378556

And I see I used it correctly in that post.

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...1870666399&highlight=Europeans#post1870666399

And again I see I used it correctly...


Come on you haven’t tried very hard There has to have been times when I've used it incorrectly!

Oh, and please, people stop referring to former Soviet Union as Russians. Soviet Union had hundreds of nationalities, and only some of them were Russians. To assign that moniker to them is unbelievably sloppy.

Hundreds? But yes that is one I have used very sloppily in the past.

 

[renata]

Tsk Tsk...be a good boy Darat. ALL Europeans kept the world on brink of MAD? Even Switzerland? I am not going to scour your posts, my friend- you know I am correct.

I can name about 50 nationalities of the former USSR of the top of my head. I imagine that with minor nationalities counted, it would exceed a hundred, but perhaps not two

The official Soviet census of 1989 listed over 100 nationalities in the Soviet Union

http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/soviet-union/soviet-union92.html

How about dozens of nationalities?

My point is- we frequently use these kinds of abbreviations. It is when people become antagonistic when they matter, otherwise it is just a simple shorthand that all of us are prone to. Nothing wrong with that, unless you are prepared to refer to

Russians
Ukrainians
Belorussians
Poles
Bulgarians
Romanians
Chekhs
Slovaks
Lithuanians
Latvians
Estonians
Armenians
Georgians
Azerbaydzhanis
Abkhazi
Dagestani
Arabs
Avras
Aguls
Jews
Kazakh
Kirgiz
Turkmen
Uzbek
Tadzhik
Moldavians
Tatars
Jews
Chuvash
Bashkirs
Mordvins
Germans
Chukchi
Buryat
Yakut
Ossetian
Komi
Tuvinian
Kalmyk
Karelian
Chechen
Kabardian-Balkar

And others I can't quite recall now

 

[aerocontrols]

I don't think I misunderstood it. In fact, it's hard to misunderstand your post:

My post consisted of repeating Darat's final paragraph and replacing Europe with American, and changing 46 to 35. (That is, it is his sentiment in a similar situation, not my sentiment) One would think that you would understand that I don't agree with what results, given that I refer to Bjorn's two-word reply to Darat's post as an excellent rebuttal.

Should we still use "Americans" to describe US citizens?

I suggest you use 'Americans', like I do. I use it to refer to citizens of the US, and people who live on one of these two continents. Lots of people are going to use "Europeans" in the same way: referring to people who are inside the EU, and people who live on the European 'continent'.

Clear enough?

Saying 'Americans' when one means 'US citizens' is technically incorrect, but so what? The purpose of language is communcation, and (if you'll pardon the circular logic) only needs to be precise when precision is necessary. If Darat insists on getting peeved about this, he's going to be peeved a lot in the future.

 

[Darat]

Tsk Tsk...be a good boy Darat. ALL Europeans kept the world on brink of MAD? Even Switzerland? I am not going to scour your posts, my friend- you know I am correct.

Yes certainly the Swiss were complicit. Just one example is their financial shenanigans that allowed money to be funnelled undetected to various "friends" of either the "west" or the "east".

I can name about 50 nationalities of the former USSR of the top of my head. I imagine that with minor nationalities counted, it would exceed a hundred, but perhaps not two

Thanks for the link; this is actually an interesting one, as in what constituents a "nationality" for inclusion on this list?

 

[renata]

Yes certainly the Swiss were complicit. Just one example is their financial shenanigans that allowed money to be funnelled undetected to various "friends" of either the "west" or the "east".

Pish posh! Give it up!

Thanks for the link; this is actually an interesting one, as in what constituents a "nationality" for inclusion on this list?

I do not know what standards they used. I assume language had something to do with it. DOn't forget that Russia and USSR was in the habit of acquiring and absorbing territory and various people for centuries.