Emotion atheists and logical atheists.

Hmmmm

1inChrist said:
This proves you do not understand at all what I've been saying. God is BEYOND logic and reason. To say that God is completely logical is INSULTING to Him. He is FAR BEYOND limited human understanding. In the Bible He revealed all that is needed to live a good life and attain salvation through the blood of Christ. To question Him or try and apply logic to Him is useless because our understanding is very LIMITED and FINITE. Compared to God's
wisdom, we are idiots!

You can't understand what I'm saying because you blindly follow logic and reason, you never question it. You do just as schools and universities have told you. Think critically and don't question logic and reason. And you call Christians brainwashed....

I get so frustrated in dealing with you zealous materialism fundamentalist.
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I am perfectly willing to concede that if there were a God we would never be able to comprehend him. However, you come in here exclaiming that you DO in fact comprehend him and the you are somehow endowed with some extraordinary insight which make you worthy to show us the error of our ways. I would suggest that it is not we atheists who are overcome with hubris, it is yourself and other true believers claiming to know "the truth". The difference between you and us is that we don't make any claim about knowing what "the truth" is except to the extent that we are certain that YOU don't know what it is either. Unlike yourself, we have not chosen to arbitrarily believe something because it give us a sense divine significance and superiority.
 
Re: Hmmmm

billydkid said:
I am perfectly willing to concede that if there were a God we would never be able to comprehend him. However, you come in here exclaiming that you DO in fact comprehend him and the you are somehow endowed with some extraordinary insight which make you worthy to show us the error of our ways. I would suggest that it is not we atheists who are overcome with hubris, it is yourself and other true believers claiming to know "the truth". The difference between you and us is that we don't make any claim about knowing what "the truth" is except to the extent that we are certain that YOU don't know what it is either. Unlike yourself, we have not chosen to arbitrarily believe something because it give us a sense divine significance and superiority.
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Yes, it has always seemed to me that the ultimate blasphemy must be those people that claim to know what God is thinking and what God wants.

What people mean when they say "Do God's will" is "Do our will on the basis that we claim to know God's will".

There is no shortage of people that claim to know God's will and they rarely agree. Everybody interprets the Bible differently all claiming that it is infallible.
 
Re: Re: Hmmmm

Robin said:
Yes, it has always seemed to me that the ultimate blasphemy must be those people that claim to know what God is thinking and what God wants.

What people mean when they say "Do God's will" is "Do our will on the basis that we claim to know God's will".

There is no shortage of people that claim to know God's will and they rarely agree. Everybody interprets the Bible differently all claiming that it is infallible.
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Exactly!
 
Oh now you're all just being silly.

2 Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
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Clearly shows that not only is salvation by faith alone, as per traditional Protestant dogma, but also that faith is up to God.

2 Thessalonians 2:11

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie
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Also indicates that faith is determined by God alone.

Only the elect get into heaven, and the rest of us are hopeless, possibly souless reprobates with no hope of God's eternal hope.
 
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
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There is some interesting reading here and there (I'm not sure of the links) that suggests the events of Christ's salvation occured prior to any event in the Bible - in the Spirit World.

This is part of what Iacchus' Idol Swedenborg (sp?) mentions - except he thinks it happened in the 1700s or 1800s.

Anyway, it almost sounds like Paul is admitting here that Christ's story is allegorical, doesn't it? :)
 
Originally posted by 1inChrist
You can't understand what I'm saying because you blindly follow logic and reason, you never question it. You do just as schools and universities have told you. Think critically and don't question logic and reason. And you call Christians brainwashed....
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The trouble is that we do understand what you are saying, we just don't buy it, (and probably neither do the majority of Christians).

It is inaccurate to say that materialists do not question logic and reason, they question it all the time. Take a scientist for example (theist and atheist alike), if an experiment disagrees with the logic and reason used to make the hypothesis, then the hypothesis is abandoned and they rethink it with the new data.

Mathematicians (again whether they are theists or atheists) question the logical assumptions and bases of their field all the time as do materialist philosophers.

It is probably the most important sentence for all critical thinking - 'I could be wrong'.

Anyone who says instead 'I am right - You are wrong' is probably not to be relied on. I only wish 1inChrist would question the basis for his beliefs as much as so called materialists question logic and reason.
 
zaayrdragon said:
There is some interesting reading here and there (I'm not sure of the links) that suggests the events of Christ's salvation occured prior to any event in the Bible - in the Spirit World.

This is part of what Iacchus' Idol Swedenborg (sp?) mentions - except he thinks it happened in the 1700s or 1800s.

Anyway, it almost sounds like Paul is admitting here that Christ's story is allegorical, doesn't it? :)
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I was trying to quote it as a Calvinist would (though I'm unsure as to what passages underpin Calvinist predeterminist doctrine), as evidence that the decision as to who goes to Heaven or who goes to Hell is God's perogative alone, so evangelism is pointless.

I suppose it could be interpreted that way too.
 
The question of Satan's free will is a curious one, be interesting to hear what the pastor says. Probably something like:
'stay off the internet'.

This seems similar to the old 'Judas question', "did Judas go to heaven or hell?" Following the story, his actions were according to God's will and there is a definite sense where he did not have any 'free will' about it. Judas' "purpose" in life was to fulfill prophecy and betray the Son of God.

Did he volunteer for that role ahead of time or draw short straw?

'Free will' just does not seem to make sense as part of Biblical teaching. It feels good, but would it be risky for me to ask anyone to provide a shred of scriptural basis for it?
 
Kopji said:
The question of Satan's free will is a curious one, be interesting to hear what the pastor says. Probably something like:
'stay off the internet'....
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1inCripes may be running from the questions about his unChristian posts, but I notice that he isn't staying off the internet...

He just isn't answering the questions...again.
 
Come on, show some Christian charity

Hey, lay off my pal OneInch. Sundays take a lot out of him. You can lose a good deal of blood through those stigmata. And then there's snakebite, and who knows what you might pick up rolling around on a garage floor?
 
1inChrist said:
Then you have a lot of believers here because the majority of atheists here are very bitter at God.
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You seem to have trouble distinguishing between attacks (critiques perhaps) directed at YOU and those directed at your god. That sounds a bit like you may have delusions of grandeur. Do you occassionally wake up thinking you are the Pope, infallible, all knowing?

I suggest you take what you get here personally and stop fobbing it off on God as if you were the appointed prophet, then perhaps you would understand counter arguments a little better.

As has already been pointed out, an atheist can't be an atheist and also be "angry" at a god. What's left? You!
 
1inChrist said:
Call me stupid all you like. I'm used to being insulting on these boards.

I will be going to Church this morning and will speak to my Pastor about the question regarding Satan.

God loves you all.
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1inch, I have been mulling some thoughts in my mind and am strongly considering "accepting" God. But I want to make sure I do it right. What exactly does "accepting" God or Jesus entail? I mean, does it just involve saying those magic words or do I have to do certain things, like going to church every Sunday, even if I have the flu? I'm ready to say those words, but I want to make sure that I don't get cheated out of avoiding hell just because I didn't say them right or failed to eat a communion wafer or something. It would suck if I accept Jesus into my heart and my soul (and my large intestine, if need be) and then when I die, I meet a sobbing God at the gates of paradise who wails that, as much as he loves me, he can't accept into heaven because I looked at some chick's butt in church one Sunday, while some pervert who rapes chickens all his life has a change of heart on his deathbed and he gets to spend eternity in heaven while I get my heart, soul, and large intestine roasted by Satan and his minions.

My point is: does accepting God erase all sins you've committed to that point, or all future ones as well? If I, being the slick goat that I am, plan to continue to follow my sinful ways, only to repent and "accept" God on my deathbed, (like so many mass-murdering, bestiality-loving sinners do in Chick tracts) will this work against me or will it erase all my past transgressions, including my intention to deceive?
 
Follow-up: I'm certain that the majority of people who "accept" God or Jesus do so, not because they love him, but because they want to avoid the fires of HELL . Is this frowned upon by the maker of the invisible rules? What if someone couldn't care less about frying in hell but has always found one of the saints to be kind of cute and wants to spend eternity chasing her around the clouds. If he "accepts" Jesus and goes to church and swallows a piece of God and his blood every Sunday, does this intention void the contract, or his he allowed in anyway? Because if so, I think St. Barbara better watch out!!
 
I haven't read a word of this post, so I don't know if anyone has brought this up or not, but there is a way to tell a logical atheist from an emotional one. An emotional atheist will argue endlessly with people like 1inChrist. A logical atheist fails to see the point of speaking to people like 1inChrist at all.

There you have it.
 
Bruce said:
I haven't read a word of this post, so I don't know if anyone has brought this up or not, but there is a way to tell a logical atheist from an emotional one. An emotional atheist will argue endlessly with people like 1inChrist. A logical atheist fails to see the point of speaking to people like 1inChrist at all.

There you have it.
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What about those that mainly make fun of the sock puppet 1inch's posts? Are they bitter atheists? Are they happy agnostics? Manic-depressive zen buddhists without even knowing it? I need an answer now!
 
quote:
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Originally posted by Bodhi Dharma Zen
If satan is free (and as intelligent as you pressume), why if he chooses to believe in Christ? will he be saved? aahh thats a good question, isnt it?
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1inChrist said:
I'm not sure. I will speak with my Pastor about this tomorrow and get back to you.
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Hello, 1inC, Im still wondering about this. Thanks.
 
Hawk one said:
What about those that mainly make fun of the sock puppet 1inch's posts? Are they bitter atheists? Are they happy agnostics? Manic-depressive zen buddhists without even knowing it? I need an answer now!
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Patients, young padowan. The answer will come in due time. Remember, doctors recieve patients.
 
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