Elizabeth Warren - 1/32nd Cherokee? How?

[varwoche]

It says a lot about the dysfunction in American politics that we are arguing about a box checked on a form 17 years ago instead of the main issues facing our nation.

Or Romney's tan, or...

But that said, I enjoy discussing political trivia, so long as it's kept in perspective. "The main issues" mean almost nothing to me, in that there's nothing to weigh from my perspective -- it's a virtual given which way I'm going to vote.

I've no idea what that has to do with a person's state of mind. I really don't get it. She was raised to believe what she believed.

Maybe we're crossing signals again. My operating assumption is that she was aware of being microscopically Cherokee. If she wrongly thought her Cherokee ancestory was more substantial, I'd feel differently. Or by state of mind, do you mean some sort of impressionistic, kumbaya sort of thing?

We're all African by the way, if we're in kumbaya mode.

How do you differentiate between true selfserving statements and false ones? Because they might actually end up looking the same.

Indeed. That's when I look to evidence from other sources.

But that brings us back to the unanswered question, how does checking a box on a form advance one's career?

I could speculate but I won't, because I'm not making that argument. My guess is it may have had more to do with a young person wishing to be cool amongst peers, or the like.

So when the black children that Madonna or Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie adopted are asked, they should mark "white" on the form since that's the culture they were surrounded by?

Really? This shallow, and this ignoring of my nuanced comments?

 

[thaiboxerken]

It says a lot about the dysfunction in American politics that we are arguing about a box checked on a form 17 years ago instead of the main issues facing our nation.

That was the intent when the GOP brought up this issue. They don't want to discuss if the bankruptcy law Warren fought against is in the best interest of our citizens or just the banking industry. Or if current regulations will prevent Wall Street from setting up another massive collapse in the near future and milking the taxpayers once again. Or if the CFPB is doing the right thing by forcing mortgage lenders to disclose terms in way that will allow borrowers to fully understand and compare offers.

you are correct. the GOP can't win on policy, so they attack other issues.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... Really? This shallow, and this ignoring of my nuanced comments?

No, you and I agree most of the time. I was seriously trying to point out the fallacy in your claim that Warren not having been immersed or involved in Native Am culture, means she should also not recognize any heritage if she believed she had it.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think everyone has the same thought process when checking a box re heritage on a form.

 

[COLONEL]

So when the black children that Madonna or Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie adopted are asked, they should mark "white" on the form since that's the culture they were surrounded by?

Maybe it is time to just have a form that says American,Canadian, Japan, etc and you check of the country where you were born. After all, My feeling is if you are born here you are an American , not Afro American, Irish American. if you want to split hair I say being born in America would make us all Native Americans.

 

[Travis]

I doubt it. Assuming we're right, this makes our difference of opinion even clearer.

I'm 3/4 Jewish (ethnically), 3/16 Irish, 1/16 English. From my perspective, if I self-identifed as English, I'd be lying, period. I'm slowly starting to appreciate that not everyone views this the same way as me. So let me ask this: What if I self-identified as African? Would that be a lie?

If you had grown up hearing family lore of a great, great, great grandfather who fought in the Boer Wars then it most certainly isn't a lie. Even if it turns out the closest he ever got to a farm in Africa was reading books.

 

[varwoche]

No, you and I agree most of the time. I was seriously trying to point out the fallacy in your claim that Warren not having been immersed or involved in Native Am culture, means she should also not recognize any heritage if she believed she had it.

Sorry but this is false.

I'm not going to claim clarity (especially when I managed to confuse davefoc who I have ultimate respect for on this forum over so many years) but I have inferred several times that I take into account ethnicity and upbringing.

I've also mentioned several times that my operational assumption is that Warren was aware that she was only microscopically Cherokee -- that she did not "believe". So when you toss in "if she believed", that too disregards what I've been constantly saying. (I could be wrong about her state of awareness, but that's not the point in this particular exchange between you and I.)

I don't expect you to hang on my every word. Still, get with it just slightly.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry but this is false.

I'm not going to claim clarity (especially when I managed to confuse Dave Falk who I have ultimate respect for on this forum over so many years) but I have inferred several times that I take into account ethnicity and upbringing.

I've also mentioned several times that my operational assumption is that Warren was aware that she was only microscopically Cherokee -- that she did not "believe". So when you toss in "if she believed", that too disregards what I've been constantly saying. (I could be wrong about her state of awareness, but that's not the point in this particular exchange between you and I.)

I don't expect you to hang on my every word. Still, get with it just slightly.

It still depends on one's point of view when marking the box and your operational assumption assigns your point of view to others. I'm merely saying that operational assumption depends on underlying premises that you don't know did or did not apply to Warren.

 

[RandFan]

Maybe we're crossing signals again. My operating assumption is that she was aware of being microscopically Cherokee.

But I addressed this point a number of times. The Chief of the Cherokee nations is 1/32 Cherokee. Is it wrong for him to check the box for indian? And let's assume for sake of argument that affiliation is important, how does Warren know that? I didn't know it. And FTR, I think it's complete BS.

My guess is it may have had more to do with a young person wishing to be cool amongst peers, or the like.

Again, state of mind. I'll tell you what, I would be a little more receptive to your argument if her parents had not eloped over the issue. Her parents suffered as a result of a belief. Right or wrong it was important in her family.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Maybe it is time to just have a form that says American,Canadian, Japan, etc and you check of the country where you were born. After all, My feeling is if you are born here you are an American , not Afro American, Irish American. if you want to split hair I say being born in America would make us all Native Americans.

Apparently you and the duke feel the same way ...

 

[Unabogie]

NBC calls Warren the winner?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/11/looking_strong_for_warren_1.php?ref=fpblg

How about them apples?

 

[RandFan]

NBC calls Warren the winner?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/11/looking_strong_for_warren_1.php?ref=fpblg

How about them apples?

I'm as happy as a little girl.

 

[davefoc]

So in the end what was the net effect of this trumped up non-issue.

1. It hurt Warren but not enough to prevent her from winning.
2. The effect was minimal
3. It hurt Brown. People thought the issue was a stupid made up issue and they weren't going to vote for somebody that would hang his hat on this kind of nonsense.

 

[fishbob]

There's a small problem here, though. We don't actually know what Warren did, because she won't release her job application.

This is so weak.
I have never in 40 years of working kept a copy of a job application.

 

[fishbob]

So in the end what was the net effect of this trumped up non-issue.

1. It hurt Warren but not enough to prevent her from winning.
2. The effect was minimal
3. It hurt Brown. People thought the issue was a stupid made up issue and they weren't going to vote for somebody that would hang his hat on this kind of nonsense.

I hope it was number 3, and that politicians will get a clue that spreading the stupid around is not always the winning strategy.