Elizabeth Warren - 1/32nd Cherokee? How?

[Ziggurat]

Gee, what does this guy know, he's only on the Board of Bar Overseers.

I see you still haven't figured out how to read the dates of blog posts. That post was from the 25th, and rather obviously can't address a case that wasn't uncovered until the 27th. One would have thought you would have learned from the first time you made that mistake.

Moreover, Jacobson specifically addressed the statements from Fredrickson, whom Jacobson talked to about the issue. A rather key bit:

Fredrickson stated that he did not purport to determine whether Warren violated the applicable law. He said he was just “speaking hypothetically” and not specifically as to Warren because “I know so little about Elizabeth Warren and her practice.

Not exactly the comprehensive refutation you were hoping for.

 

[dc1971]

Not exactly the comprehensive refutation you were hoping for.

But yet it was.

 

[shuize]

This was done in good faith. There was no farce. It was not shameful.

Yeah, like when she plagiarized recipes to bolster her claim to Native American heritage "in good faith."

That wasn't shameful at all.

 

[varwoche]

There are several overlapping issues that make it unclear to me why Warren defenders have taken certain positions.

If a person is fully aware of being 1/32 Something, and has no formal affiliation with Something organizations, and wasn't raised in Something culture, and checks a box indicating they are Something, do you consider that a lie? I sure do.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

I don't. Was I wrong to think the boxes to be checked were for ancestry, rather than affiliation?

 

[varwoche]

I don't. Was I wrong to think the boxes to be checked were for ancestry, rather than affiliation?

I doubt it. Assuming we're right, this makes our difference of opinion even clearer.

I'm 3/4 Jewish (ethnically), 3/16 Irish, 1/16 English. From my perspective, if I self-identifed as English, I'd be lying, period. I'm slowly starting to appreciate that not everyone views this the same way as me. So let me ask this: What if I self-identified as African? Would that be a lie?

 

[tyr_13]

I doubt it. Assuming we're right, this makes our difference of opinion even clearer.

I'm 3/4 Jewish (ethnically), 3/16 Irish, 1/16 English. From my perspective, if I self-identifed as English, I'd be lying, period. I'm slowly starting to appreciate that others don't view this the same way as me. So let me ask this: What if I self-identified as African? Would that be a lie?

If you were asked to 'check all that apply' then not checking English would be a lie. If you fancied yourself English, or thought it would be neat when you were a young man, I wouldn't hold it against you holding office decades later.

 

[varwoche]

If you were asked to 'check all that apply' then not checking English would be a lie. If you fancied yourself English, or thought it would be neat when you were a young man, I wouldn't hold it against you holding office decades later.

I fully agree.

 

[Ziggurat]

If you were asked to 'check all that apply' then not checking English would be a lie. If you fancied yourself English, or thought it would be neat when you were a young man, I wouldn't hold it against you holding office decades later.

There's a small problem here, though. We don't actually know what Warren did, because she won't release her job application.

 

[RandFan]

There are several overlapping issues that make it unclear to me why Warren defenders have taken certain positions.

If a person is fully aware of being 1/32 Something, and has no formal affiliation with Something organizations, and wasn't raised in Something culture, and checks a box indicating they are Something, do you consider that a lie? I sure do.

Absolutely not. What does formal affiliation have to do with anything or being raised in some culture have to do with anything? Seriously I don't get that.

ETA: I know that is important to those organizations but I've not a clue what that has to do with A.) a person's sincere state of mind. B.) anything anyway. Explain that please.

 

[RandFan]

Yeah, like when she plagiarized recipes to bolster her claim to Native American heritage "in good faith."

Source?

 

[RandFan]

I doubt it. Assuming we're right, this makes our difference of opinion even clearer.

I'm 3/4 Jewish (ethnically), 3/16 Irish, 1/16 English. From my perspective, if I self-identifed as English, I'd be lying, period. I'm slowly starting to appreciate that not everyone views this the same way as me. So let me ask this: What if I self-identified as African? Would that be a lie?

Are you 1/32 African? BTW: The Cheif of the Cherokee nation is 1/32 Cherokee, is he a liar when he states he's Indian? What does that have to do with state of mind? If Warren honestly believed that being 1/64 Indian made her Indian would she be a liar? I'm confused how you can state unequivocally what a person's state of mind is without knowing what their state of mind is.

 

[varwoche]

Are you 1/32 African? BTW: The Cheif of the Cherokee nation is 1/32 Cherokee, is he a liar when he states he's Indian?

Hence my qualifiers about being raised in the culture.

What does that have to do with state of mind? If Warren honestly believed that being 1/64 Indian made her Indian would she be a liar?

I'm confused how you can state unequivocally what a person's state of mind is without knowing what their state of mind is.

I don't buy this line of argument whatsoever.

I accept that you see things this way though, and as a matter of fairness I hope you're equally generous when we're scrutinzing politicians with whom we disagree. (Not intended as a back-handed insult; I think you are generally fair-minded.)

 

[Kestrel]

It says a lot about the dysfunction in American politics that we are arguing about a box checked on a form 17 years ago instead of the main issues facing our nation.

That was the intent when the GOP brought up this issue. They don't want to discuss if the bankruptcy law Warren fought against is in the best interest of our citizens or just the banking industry. Or if current regulations will prevent Wall Street from setting up another massive collapse in the near future and milking the taxpayers once again. Or if the CFPB is doing the right thing by forcing mortgage lenders to disclose terms in way that will allow borrowers to fully understand and compare offers.

 

[RandFan]

Hence my qualifiers about being raised in the culture.

I've no idea what that has to do with a person's state of mind. I really don't get it. She was raised to believe what she believed.

I don't buy this line of argument whatsoever.

I accept that you see things this way though, and as a matter of fairness I hope you're equally generous when we're scrutinzing politicians with whom we disagree. (Not intended as a back-handed insult; I think you are generally fair-minded.)

That's fine. I'm happy to agree to disagree. It's just that I just have no basis to understand it. I can't wrap my head around it. I'd just like to understand. I know that you are not anti-Warren so I'm really struggling to get it. A person's state of mind is a persons state of mind.

This is what I hear you say, a persons state of mind makes them a liar if the state of mind is wrong. If instead your argument was that she should have known and therefore doubt her veracity then I could understand that argument.

 

[varwoche]

I've no idea what that has to do with a person's state of mind. I really don't get it. She was raised to believe what she believed.

According to Warren that is.

And that gets to my other issue: I don't believe self-serving statements made by politicians who are running for office.

 

[Moss]

According to Warren that is.

And that gets to my other issue: I don't believe self-serving statements made by politicians who are running for office.

How do you differentiate between true selfserving statements and false ones? Because they might actually end up looking the same.

 

[RandFan]

According to Warren that is.

And that gets to my other issue: I don't believe self-serving statements made by politicians who are running for office.

Okay. But just to be clear, that a statement is self-serving doesn't automatically make a statement wrong. It's just provides a reason why a politician might lie. But that brings us back to the unanswered question, how does checking a box on a form advance one's career?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
I don't buy this line of argument whatsoever. ...

So when the black children that Madonna or Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie adopted are asked, they should mark "white" on the form since that's the culture they were surrounded by?

 

[Tricky]

It says a lot about the dysfunction in American politics that we are arguing about a box checked on a form 17 years ago instead of the main issues facing our nation.

That was the intent when the GOP brought up this issue. They don't want to discuss if the bankruptcy law Warren fought against is in the best interest of our citizens or just the banking industry. Or if current regulations will prevent Wall Street from setting up another massive collapse in the near future and milking the taxpayers once again. Or if the CFPB is doing the right thing by forcing mortgage lenders to disclose terms in way that will allow borrowers to fully understand and compare offers.

I know. My feeling when reading this was, "Aren't there any real issues in this race?" I guess it is truly asking too much for the electorate to become informed about complex stuff. Snarky sound bytes work better. It is the twitterfication of America.