Cont: Electric Vehicles II

[8enotto]

Not surprisingly the markets here are predominantly filled with energy saving and low consumption electrodomestic devices.
Have been through the 90's.

We don't heat, no AC and zero insulation in block walls. Our highest draw item here is a water pump to get water on our roof tanks.
The cistern to main tank pump doesn't dim a bulb when fired up. I chose these particular low draw items as more than adequate, affordable and made a serviceable system.

We live in a very nice two story home built much like Johny Cash's car that sports very basic systems behind amenities few would find inadequate. Running water, flush toilets and more than adequate lighting.
It's all invisible unless you're on the 2nd floor roof or back patio. We fill 2000l of water in roof tanks once a week normally by flipping a breaker. Beats paying a water bill. Hot water is dependent on sun levels some, uses zero fuel and is always available.

There is no roughing it heŕe in regular activities. It's getting outside of them where one runs into walls.

My old boss had to buy a parcel of land next to 3 phase power lines to be able to contract 3 phase service for his welder and drill press.
They would not extend it to a parcel a block away. Not even on a bribe.
They just denied his request for connection for a month without explanation. Said he didn't need it.
He finally got it after a battle and a sly move to run wires before a last request. Claimed wires had been there before him.
It pays to have friends in the CFE.

 

[dirtywick]

As a kind of slightly off-topic aside, although some might see 8enotto's doubts as unfounded or excessive, I would never underestimate the short sight of those who do not see their lives as part of a community. A glancing reference to current national policies in which such community services as social safety nets and emergency response are being gutted, but also I would mention that my wife once lived in a rural Massachusetts town with a large part time population, in which many summer residents complained of having to pay taxes to support winter snowplowing. In my own town it's a perennial argument of some that if they have no children in school they should not pay school taxes, and some years ago a few people began a heated argument in town meeting over teachers' salaries, contending that because teachers get the summer off, their annual salaries should not provide a year's living. They're out there!

that sounds like literally everywhere in america

 

[Dabop]

Not surprisingly the markets here are predominantly filled with energy saving and low consumption electrodomestic devices.
Have been through the 90's.

We don't heat, no AC and zero insulation in block walls. Our highest draw item here is a water pump to get water on our roof tanks.
The cistern to main tank pump doesn't dim a bulb when fired up. I chose these particular low draw items as more than adequate, affordable and made a serviceable system.

We live in a very nice two story home built much like Johny Cash's car that sports very basic systems behind amenities few would find inadequate. Running water, flush toilets and more than adequate lighting.
It's all invisible unless you're on the 2nd floor roof or back patio. We fill 2000l of water in roof tanks once a week normally by flipping a breaker. Beats paying a water bill. Hot water is dependent on sun levels some, uses zero fuel and is always available.

There is no roughing it heŕe in regular activities. It's getting outside of them where one runs into walls.

My old boss had to buy a parcel of land next to 3 phase power lines to be able to contract 3 phase service for his welder and drill press.
They would not extend it to a parcel a block away. Not even on a bribe.
They just denied his request for connection for a month without explanation. Said he didn't need it.
He finally got it after a battle and a sly move to run wires before a last request. Claimed wires had been there before him.
It pays to have friends in the CFE.

I dont have any grid connection obviously (being offgrid lol) simply due to cost- a 500m plus long run from the street lines out the front to my place was going to cost $42k Au. my entire offgrid system gives me more power (12kw against 8kw for the grid connection) and cost considerably LESS than getting the mains put in (under $18k Au against $42k Au!!!)

I currently cook on all electric, run the welder/plasma cutter/aircompressor in the shed if I need them, this laptop runs 24/7, as does the 'dunny light' (getting old sux- I havent slept the entire night through for years....) I run the electric blanket overnight in cold weather, and I even use the caravans A/C unit in the shed in hot weather- if I had the full 18kw of panels up, I could use that whenever I wanted, with only 1.5kw up on the 'temporary array' I do have to be cautious using the AC too much- after a few days of use, I'm biting heavily into the battery bank....

Get these out of the shed and up on the roof of the house- and the demands of AC (and an EV) are easily met...

Thats 72 panels or 18kw of 250w panels (minus the ones running the shed currently- once all up on the roof of the house, that will be generating around 90-95kWh a day in good conditions- far more than I will ever need (my old house used around 7-10kWh a day!!!!!- the vans closer to 4-6kWh a day- so I have a LOT of reserve power available- to run my 'toys' when I want to out in the shed (lathe/mill etc lol)

Even assuming I came in with a dead flat battery on a BYD Atto, a single days sunlight, and its fully charged again- ready for another 420km of driving- for free even lol

(compare that to the old Hilux- which takes close to $100 Au of diesel to drive that same 420km!!!!)

(it uses close to 10L/100km, and diesel is not cheap- I filled up on the long weekend holiday last weekend and it was $2.38 a litre!!! (even normally, its around $2.00 a litre here)

This was the highest I'd ever seen it when it broke $2.40 a litre for the first time ever... (that 32.46L would get the Lux almost exactly 300km...)

If I had the Atto- that would have been....
Zero.....

I currently do about 20-25 thousand KM a year, with fuel up around $2.00 Au pr more a litre thats close to $7500 a year in diesel alone....

That puts the ROI on the Atto around 5-6 years before I am 'driving for free' (thats not including servicing the diesel- which isnt cheap either)- air filter every six months ($120), oil change every 12 months (another $80- if I do it myself... $175 if I get the mechanic to do it) and twice in the last three years had to get the injectors cleaned after getting dodgy fuel (unfortunately common out here in the rural areas) thats $160 per injector- or $640 a time...

Can you see why a small rural Qld town thats a 100km drive each way to the nearest McDonalds and only has 1500 people living in it already has SEVEN EVs in it?????? and more wanting them (including me, even living offgrid lol)

Have to be a mug NOT to.....

 

[acbytesla]

I dont have any grid connection obviously (being offgrid lol) simply due to cost- a 500m plus long run from the street lines out the front to my place was going to cost $42k Au. my entire offgrid system gives me more power (12kw against 8kw for the grid connection) and cost considerably LESS than getting the mains put in (under $18k Au against $42k Au!!!)

I currently cook on all electric, run the welder/plasma cutter/aircompressor in the shed if I need them, this laptop runs 24/7, as does the 'dunny light' (getting old sux- I havent slept the entire night through for years....) I run the electric blanket overnight in cold weather, and I even use the caravans A/C unit in the shed in hot weather- if I had the full 18kw of panels up, I could use that whenever I wanted, with only 1.5kw up on the 'temporary array' I do have to be cautious using the AC too much- after a few days of use, I'm biting heavily into the battery bank....
View attachment 64714
Get these out of the shed and up on the roof of the house- and the demands of AC (and an EV) are easily met...
View attachment 64715
Thats 72 panels or 18kw of 250w panels (minus the ones running the shed currently- once all up on the roof of the house, that will be generating around 90-95kWh a day in good conditions- far more than I will ever need (my old house used around 7-10kWh a day!!!!!- the vans closer to 4-6kWh a day- so I have a LOT of reserve power available- to run my 'toys' when I want to out in the shed (lathe/mill etc lol)

Even assuming I came in with a dead flat battery on a BYD Atto, a single days sunlight, and its fully charged again- ready for another 420km of driving- for free even lol

(compare that to the old Hilux- which takes close to $100 Au of diesel to drive that same 420km!!!!)

(it uses close to 10L/100km, and diesel is not cheap- I filled up on the long weekend holiday last weekend and it was $2.38 a litre!!! (even normally, its around $2.00 a litre here)

This was the highest I'd ever seen it when it broke $2.40 a litre for the first time ever... (that 32.46L would get the Lux almost exactly 300km...)
View attachment 64716
If I had the Atto- that would have been....
Zero.....

I currently do about 20-25 thousand KM a year, with fuel up around $2.00 Au pr more a litre thats close to $7500 a year in diesel alone....

That puts the ROI on the Atto around 5-6 years before I am 'driving for free' (thats not including servicing the diesel- which isnt cheap either)- air filter every six months ($120), oil change every 12 months (another $80- if I do it myself... $175 if I get the mechanic to do it) and twice in the last three years had to get the injectors cleaned after getting dodgy fuel (unfortunately common out here in the rural areas) thats $160 per injector- or $640 a time...

Can you see why a small rural Qld town thats a 100km drive each way to the nearest McDonalds and only has 1500 people living in it already has SEVEN EVs in it?????? and more wanting them (including me, even living offgrid lol)

Have to be a mug NOT to.....

Nice setup. I live off grid too. My issue is the winter months. Solar electricity production in November, December and January falls off a cliff. I have to use the propane generator to charge my batteries and that's expensive.

 

[Rolfe]

A friend of mine in the north of Scotland was doing that, until he got an electric car. Now he drives to the public charger, buys some electricity, and brings it back to run the house. He says he hasn't run the generator for a couple of years now. The public charger prices round here aren't cheap though, so I don't really know how it stacks up. He says it's worth it. Of course he has s wind turbine as well which picks up a fair bit of the slack in winter.

 

[acbytesla]

A friend of mine in the north of Scotland was doing that, until he got an electric car. Now he drives to the public charger, buys some electricity, and brings it back to run the house. He says he hasn't run the generator for a couple of years now. The public charger prices round here aren't cheap though, so I don't really know how it stacks up. He says it's worth it. Of course he has s wind turbine as well which picks up a fair bit of the slack in winter.

My neighbor who is also off grid sold his EV truck after 1 year because of the challenges charging in the winter. More the inconvenience of driving 35 miles each way to charge it. But now there is a fast charger in the small town that is only 15 miles away. I'm much closer to pulling the trigger.

 

[Dabop]

Nice setup. I live off grid too. My issue is the winter months. Solar electricity production in November, December and January falls off a cliff. I have to use the propane generator to charge my batteries and that's expensive.

Funnily enough, my production falls off over Christmas as well- but thats because its summer, it gets stinking hot here (40C plus for weeks on end) and when PV panels get hot (I've measured mine over 80C in summer), their output FALLS.... (in fact, over summer, my output is almost the same as in winter- spring and autumn are the 'prime time' generating times for me...)

At 80C, my 250w rated panels (at STC) fall under 200w (closer to 190w in fact)

A friend of mine in the north of Scotland was doing that, until he got an electric car. Now he drives to the public charger, buys some electricity, and brings it back to run the house. He says he hasn't run the generator for a couple of years now. The public charger prices round here aren't cheap though, so I don't really know how it stacks up. He says it's worth it. Of course he has s wind turbine as well which picks up a fair bit of the slack in winter.

LOL- thats another reason to go the BYD- they have (and have had) V2H/V2G for several years- something Tesla doesn't currently offer in Australia lol- but having it available as an option means my home goes from its current 20kWh of LYP battery bank, to 4 times as much!!!! (using the cars battery as a 'reserve')- plus should I really need to- I 'could' do the same- drive 10km into town, recharge on the public charger there, drive home and use that to recharge the house bank/run the house...

 

[acbytesla]

Funnily enough, my production falls off over Christmas as well- but thats because its summer, it gets stinking hot here (40C plus for weeks on end) and when PV panels get hot (I've measured mine over 80C in summer), their output FALLS.... (in fact, over summer, my output is almost the same as in winter- spring and autumn are the 'prime time' generating times for me...)

At 80C, my 250w rated panels (at STC) fall under 200w (closer to 190w in fact)

LOL- thats another reason to go the BYD- they have (and have had) V2H/V2G for several years- something Tesla doesn't currently offer in Australia lol- but having it available as an option means my home goes from its current 20kWh of LYP battery bank, to 4 times as much!!!! (using the cars battery as a 'reserve')- plus should I really need to- I 'could' do the same- drive 10km into town, recharge on the public charger there, drive home and use that to recharge the house bank/run the house...

My neighbor owned a Ford Lightning which had V2L. That's half the reason he bought it.

But batteries are about to get a hell of a lot cheaper. CATL sodium batteries will be priced less than half of lithium phosphate batteries. And have 3 times the longevity.

 

[Dabop]

My neighbor owned a Ford Lightning which had V2L. That's half the reason he bought it.

But batteries are about to get a hell of a lot cheaper. CATL sodium batteries will be priced less than half of lithium phosphate batteries. And have 3 times the longevity.

Ford doesnt sell the Lightning here in Australia themselves and have said they have no intention of even bringing them into the country lol- even they acknowledge they are extremely unlikely to ever sell more than a handful lol- if you want one, you have to get it through an aftermarket importer- and even I was horrified at the price...

Yes it has V2H like the Atto 3- but only has 95km more range than the Atto (515km versus 420km) BUT sit down for the price....

While the Atto I am looking at is the LR version at $44k (the standard one costs just under $40k) the Lightning here STARTS at $170k Au, with their top of the line version coming in at a ridiculous $210k Au
You could buy a BYD LR to drive a different one every day of the week for the same price as one premium Lightning...
Buy the cheapest of the Atto's and the cheapest of the Lightnings- you only get to drive a different Atto Monday to Thursday- Friday you got to drive the Monday one again.....

I bet they are just flying out the door at those prices....
NOT....

 

[acbytesla]

Ford doesnt sell the Lightning here in Australia themselves and have said they have no intention of even bringing them into the country lol- even they acknowledge they are extremely unlikely to ever sell more than a handful lol- if you want one, you have to get it through an aftermarket importer- and even I was horrified at the price...

Yes it has V2H like the Atto 3- but only has 95km more range than the Atto (515km versus 420km) BUT sit down for the price....

While the Atto I am looking at is the LR version at $44k (the standard one costs just under $40k) the Lightning here STARTS at $170k Au, with their top of the line version coming in at a ridiculous $210k Au
You could buy a BYD LR to drive a different one every day of the week for the same price as one premium Lightning...
Buy the cheapest of the Atto's and the cheapest of the Lightnings- you only get to drive a different Atto Monday to Thursday- Friday you got to drive the Monday one again.....

I bet they are just flying out the door at those prices....
NOT....

He bought his new for $56K US minus a $7K US government tax deduction. He traded it in for a gasoline F150 I think he said after it was all done he paid about $2500 plus fuel costs to drive it for the year.

 

[bruto]

Things have gotten little easier for going off grid these days, I think. Back in the late 70's a cousin and family went off grid because the power company wanted a lot to run electricity to his house. He figured he'd be better off installing solar panels and batteries. At that time, most of his system was 12 volt, with refrigerator and washing machine and the like rather expensive, made for RV's and yachts. He even found a 12 volt submersible pump, but still heated with wood and had limited light and power. He had a generator for some woodworking equipment and an inverter for some stuff. RV gas stove and water heater. He had a big bank of deep cycle lead-acid batteries, and a second bank of surplus phone company batteries (they resell them long before they're used up). Nowadays, I think the electronics of inverters and battery technology have gotten enough better that one wouldn't need as much exotic 12 volt stuff. And, of course, in the interim LED lighting has taken off. Back in the 80's they had a few fluorescents, but things got pretty dim in the evening.

Off grid living is still pretty rare around here, but I think it's growing, as solar arrays and high efficiency batteries have gotten better. A lot of people are on the grid but running local solar arrays that both pay back some cost and provide emergency generation, especially if one can dedicate part of the solar power to charging an EV. It's happening slowly, but happening.

I have yet to figure out where I would put a solar array on my difficult terrain, but maybe some day.

 

[acbytesla]

I have yet to figure out where I would put a solar array on my difficult terrain, but maybe some day.

Super easy. You can get an app for under $10 on your phone. Point your phone in the general direction of the Sun, enter a date, say the winter equinox and it will show you the track of the sun. A friend of mine used it to know what trees he should cut down for his solar panel installation.

SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows
Apple

SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows App - App Store

Download SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows by Thomas Moder on the App Store. See screenshots, ratings and reviews, user tips, and more games like SunOnTrack: Sun…

apps.apple.com

Android

SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows - Apps on Google Play

Calc sun position, path, sunlight & shadows - real estate, solar, outdoor, photo

play.google.com

$7.49US

 

[Dabop]

US 'trucks' in general arent big sellers in Australia- too big, too thirsty, and too expensive ( even a basic Ram 2500 here starts at $172k Au!!!!) and thats for the 'pov pack' base model....


Where the Hiluxes like mine start at $27k for the 2wd 'tradie pack' up to $75k for their absolute top of the line 4wd crewcab....

And because of the licencing laws- the 2500 cant actually legally tow any more than the Hilux lol- Oh they have a 4t towing limit against the Hiluxes 3.5t- BUT it can only legally tow that 4t trailer behind it with NO luggage/load/passengers in the Ram, an empty fuel tank and a driver under 90kg!!!!
That 'big' body works against it lol...

Thats because the limit here if you only hold a 'car' licence is 4.5t gross vehicle weight- you 'can' get it registered as a LR (light rigid truck) but then, you need a LR truck licence to drive it (at any time- even just popping down to pick up a bottle of milk- the driver is required by law to hold a LR licence- and BIG fines and loss of licence if you dont have it...)

The Lightning has the same issue, but worse- it weighs in at 3.9 tonnes- meaning it can only carry 600kg in total load weight if registered for a car licence holder- even my 'cute little Hilux' as one guy said, can carry nearly double that (1000kg payload legally on a car licence. and add another 2000kg on a trailer behind- its the older model that only has a 2t tow limit, the newer ones are now 3.5t instead) currently the imported Lightnings aren't allowed to tow at all here)
LOL
Hence why Ford Australia has zero interest in bringing them into the country- your average car driver cant drive one and have anywhere near a useful vehicle (hell, chuck my trailer on the Atto3 and even IT can LEGALLY have twice the load the Lightning can legally carry lol (1200kg total payload for the Atto with trailer...)

Its not going to win any hearts in the tradies/commercial sectors either- lousy turning circle, and you can buy two JACs for the price of a single Lightning...

 

[acbytesla]

US 'trucks' in general arent big sellers in Australia- too big, too thirsty, and too expensive ( even a basic Ram 2500 here starts at $172k Au!!!!) and thats for the 'pov pack' base model....
View attachment 64725

Where the Hiluxes like mine start at $27k for the 2wd 'tradie pack' up to $75k for their absolute top of the line 4wd crewcab....
View attachment 64726
And because of the licencing laws- the 2500 cant actually legally tow any more than the Hilux lol- Oh they have a 4t towing limit against the Hiluxes 3.5t- BUT it can only legally tow that 4t trailer behind it with NO luggage/load/passengers in the Ram, an empty fuel tank and a driver under 90kg!!!!
That 'big' body works against it lol...

Thats because the limit here if you only hold a 'car' licence is 4.5t gross vehicle weight- you 'can' get it registered as a LR (light rigid truck) but then, you need a LR truck licence to drive it (at any time- even just popping down to pick up a bottle of milk- the driver is required by law to hold a LR licence- and BIG fines and loss of licence if you dont have it...)

The Lightning has the same issue, but worse- it weighs in at 3.9 tonnes- meaning it can only carry 600kg in total load weight if registered for a car licence holder- even my 'cute little Hilux' as one guy said, can carry nearly double that (1000kg payload legally on a car licence. and add another 2000kg on a trailer behind- its the older model that only has a 2t tow limit, the newer ones are now 3.5t instead) currently the imported Lightnings aren't allowed to tow at all here)
LOL
Hence why Ford Australia has zero interest in bringing them into the country- your average car driver cant drive one and have anywhere near a useful vehicle (hell, chuck my trailer on the Atto3 and even IT can LEGALLY have twice the load the Lightning can legally carry lol (1200kg total payload for the Atto with trailer...)

Its not going to win any hearts in the tradies/commercial sectors either- lousy turning circle, and you can buy two JACs for the price of a single Lightning...
View attachment 64728

I know. They really don't sell them for export.

 

[Dabop]

Things have gotten little easier for going off grid these days, I think. Back in the late 70's a cousin and family went off grid because the power company wanted a lot to run electricity to his house. He figured he'd be better off installing solar panels and batteries. At that time, most of his system was 12 volt, with refrigerator and washing machine and the like rather expensive, made for RV's and yachts. He even found a 12 volt submersible pump, but still heated with wood and had limited light and power. He had a generator for some woodworking equipment and an inverter for some stuff. RV gas stove and water heater. He had a big bank of deep cycle lead-acid batteries, and a second bank of surplus phone company batteries (they resell them long before they're used up). Nowadays, I think the electronics of inverters and battery technology have gotten enough better that one wouldn't need as much exotic 12 volt stuff. And, of course, in the interim LED lighting has taken off. Back in the 80's they had a few fluorescents, but things got pretty dim in the evening.

Off grid living is still pretty rare around here, but I think it's growing, as solar arrays and high efficiency batteries have gotten better. A lot of people are on the grid but running local solar arrays that both pay back some cost and provide emergency generation, especially if one can dedicate part of the solar power to charging an EV. It's happening slowly, but happening.

I have yet to figure out where I would put a solar array on my difficult terrain, but maybe some day.

12v- that dates it lol - my very first solar powered offgrid system was in the 1980's-24v, lead acid batteries, a 2000w inverter and 1kw of solar- and that cost close to 20 grand at the time (A HUGE pricetag)- the 1kw of solar (10 100w panels) filled the entire roof of a three bedroom house, and cost $10000 Au....

These days even my 48v system is outdated (I got the 12kw inverter at half price as 'new old stock' because nobody here uses 48v anymore)- its 96v for offgrid, but the 'gridtie hybrid' systems are decimating the offgrid market these days- as they can use an 'off the shelf' gridtie hybrid inverter with its battery pack, and any solar installer will know how to install it, or fix it should it need repairs....and likely has the parts already in stock...

Its just a hybrid gridtie solar installation- without the grid connected lol...
Something like this

That battery is a little small-my own is a 20kWh bank- but BYD expanding is as easy as take the top/BMS off, and drop in another 'drawer' and put the top back on... the one above has 3 4kWh 'drawers', the one below has a fourth (so a 16kWh battery pack- add a 5th and you would have the same 20kWh capacity as mine here...

Dont even need tools- they literally just 'plug in'

A five 'drawer' stack is the same capacity as mine....

I mostly run 230v stuff off the big 12kw inverter- pretty much the only exception is lighting- I run standard 'low voltage' LED ES screw in bulbs (they run 12v to 85v AC or DC) so they look like normal LED bulbs, same brightness as LED bulbs and fit any lamp base with a ES standard bulb fitting.... just run straight off the battery bank...

 

[Blue Mountain]

This is why they have professionals do it, and not hobbits lol...

True. And when it comes to stuff like this, the Hobbits usually look to the Dwarves

NO-ONE 'gives up a stall'- if you have assigned parking spots (which sounds like the case) then a common feed is installed that feeds multiple stalls at once (usually run along a wall or roof) with a charge point (which is literally just that little box on the wall) is installed at each bay as the owner/resident asks for it.

Usually the main power cable install is done as a 'building maintenance project' same as any other communal system (like the lifts, hallway lighting etc etc) and when a tenant requests a charge point be put in, it's a very quick and simple job to simply tap into the main 'EV feed' system. screw the charger to the wall and program it.

And yes- these are NOT 'lots of individual' chargers, but a single complete multivehicle charging system- and as no EV actually NEEDS an overnight 7kw charge full time every night- most of these use a 'managed' charge system designed to accommodate both the number of vehicles plugged in, and also considering the buildings supply capabilities and even current usage.

(Remainder snipped)

Thanks for that; it was quite informative. I'll check with the condo office to see what's been discussed in the past and where the project stands now.

 

[bruto]

Super easy. You can get an app for under $10 on your phone. Point your phone in the general direction of the Sun, enter a date, say the winter equinox and it will show you the track of the sun. A friend of mine used it to know what trees he should cut down for his solar panel installation.

SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows
Apple

SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows App - App Store

Download SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows by Thomas Moder on the App Store. See screenshots, ratings and reviews, user tips, and more games like SunOnTrack: Sun…

apps.apple.com

Android

SunOnTrack: Sun Path & Shadows - Apps on Google Play

Calc sun position, path, sunlight & shadows - real estate, solar, outdoor, photo

play.google.com

$7.49US

The track of the sun is no problem. The best open space is in a valley that would make routing wire long and difficult, or in a wetland. The house has a poor roof line on the south side and most of it is slate with little decking and minimal rafters for support. Beyond a small back yard which we really don't want to have occupied by solar panels, is a north facing slope. There are possibilities but none that simple.

 

[acbytesla]

The track of the sun is no problem. The best open space is in a valley that would make routing wire long and difficult, or in a wetland. The house has a poor roof line on the south side and most of it is slate with little decking and minimal rafters for support. Beyond a small back yard which we really don't want to have occupied by solar panels, is a north facing slope. There are possibilities but none that simple.

Now I remember, we talked about this once before. Well, good luck with your challenge.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... the limit here if you only hold a 'car' licence is 4.5t gross vehicle weight- you 'can' get it registered as a LR (light rigid truck) but then, you need a LR truck licence to drive it (at any time- even just popping down to pick up a bottle of milk- the driver is required by law to hold a LR licence- and BIG fines and loss of licence if you dont have it...)

The Lightning has the same issue, but worse- it weighs in at 3.9 tonnes...

A complete non-starter in the UK where a standard driving licence is only up to 3.5 tons (except for we oldies who got our licences 30+ years ago when the limit was 7.5 tons).

 

[acbytesla]

A complete non-starter in the UK where a standard driving licence is only up to 3.5 tons (except for we oldies who got our licences 30+ years ago when the limit was 7.5 tons).

Yeah, in the United States, a standard driver's licence allows you to drive a ten ton RV. I bought a full size school bus and drove it home illegally. Technically, I should have had a Commercial Drivers License to drive it. Got it home, removed most of the seats and then I was legal. It was now a recreational vehicle.