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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

Rolfe said:
I wasn't able to find a weight quoted on the web site, where did you see it? I was getting slightly contradictory information in different places. My previous bike is 15.7 kg and this one definitely feels lighter to pick up, but I haven't actually weighed it. I will do that once the accessories have been fitted.

It does seem more like a road bike, rather more so than my previous bike, but in fact the difference is probably just the width of the tyres. Last time I had new tyres fitted they put quite chunky ones on. I don't know if the Ribble would take chunkier tyres, there's something about that on the web site though.

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The Giant was sold as a hybrid too, I recall, and it has done just fine on paths and tracks. The one foray I did with the Ribble on to a very rough track was very reassuring, despite the narrower tyres.
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You're right, it says "Weighing in at under 15 kg," including accessories,

Ribble Hybrid AL e Step Through | Ribble Cycles

Looking to get fit, commute to work or something for the family weekend rides? The Hybrid AL e is our power-assisted electric hybrid.
www.ribblecycles.co.uk www.ribblecycles.co.uk

What that means, I don't know. I see a lot of fat tire bikes around here. And they mean fat. But honestly, I find these fat tire bikes kind of ridiculous.
 
acbytesla said:
I know. It's the Ribble Hybrid AL. The website says it is 15 kg. Maybe they got it wrong. Even at 15 kg, it is still much lighter than most of the Ebikes I have looked at. Still it seems very much like a road bike. Not exactly my super light racing bike with sew-ups. But also not really meant for trail riding either. Looks great for those paved country roads and occasional dirt road.

But you're right, there really isn't a perfect Ebike for all conditions. Having different ebikes for different kinds of riding would be ideal. But money is a factor.
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There's trail riding and trail riding.

I don't have an eBike but just talking generally about bikes my Planet X Kaffenback (so called because you ride it to the Café and back) is marketed as a gravel bike. Even with road tyres I've happily ridden it round the local woods on the forestry trails and some single track stuff.

Over the summer I fitted gravel tyres and took it further off road. The limiting factor is a lack of suspension but I have no desire to ride double black diamond mountain bike trails.

I've also ridden it 200km in a day on the roads with those road tyres fitted so it's quite the Swiss Army knife and all for £700 brand new.

A friend has a Santa Cruz eGravel bike. It was expensive at £5k but it's well under 10kg and is probably all the bike you'd ever need unless you're planning serious mountain biking.
 
Do gravel bikes have dropped handlebars? The Fiido I looked at didn't, but was marketed as a gravel bike, but elsewhere the dropped handlebars seem to be standard. Apart from that I don't actually know what the difference is between a hybrid and a gravel bike.
 
Rolfe said:
Do gravel bikes have dropped handlebars? The Fiido I looked at didn't, but was marketed as a gravel bike, but elsewhere the dropped handlebars seem to be standard. Apart from that I don't actually know what the difference is between a hybrid and a gravel bike.
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Typically, but not universally - drop handlebars that is.

There is probably a considerable overlap between the "sporty" end of the hybrid market and the conservative end of the gravel market but gravel bikes would feel longer and lower compared to a hybrid with a more upright seating position.
 
I don't know that much about it but I know what I want when I see it, and that Ribble was it.
 
Rolfe said:
I don't know that much about it but I know what I want when I see it, and that Ribble was it.
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A hybrid IMO is undoubtedly the best bike for your type of usage and you as a rider. You might take it down a gravelled forest track but you're not heading across the moors and wild camping on the way

Equally you could have a grand day out on the roads but you're not planning to enter a 200km Audax or your local 10 mile time trial.

Mrs Don and I both have the Marin hybrids we bought over 20 years ago and although the newer bikes mean they don't get so much use I've still been on a few club rides when the other bikes have been awaiting maintenance and we took them as transport to the Vegan Camp Out last year.

I'm unfortunately in the N+1 bike phase of my infatuation with cycling. I have a carbon fibre road bike that only comes out when the weather is good, I did about 2,000 miles on it last summer; the Kaffenback which is my winter bike and then doubles up as a gravel bike, so about 3,000 miles last year; a 1990s Peugeot that comes out for the club retro ride and maybe a couple of lazy summer rides and the Marin hybrid which I did about 500 miles on. I have no plans to buy a mountain bike.

In about 10-15 years I'll probably get an eRoad bike so I can continue to do club rides
 
I just bought a foldable E-bike from my neighbor for a $100. The motor/battery doesn't work so I'll have to fix it or get a new battery. The bike seems in great shape besides this. Definitely not what I'm looking for. But so what? I love fixing things. It has a 36 volt 250 watt system.

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What I hate right now is the dishonesty of marketers and the amount of misinformation or deliberate disinformation that fill the media. All 250w motors are not 250w. The same is true for the other size motors. But it does leave a bit of an advantage for someone that lives where a motor above that threshold is considered illegal. Now I wouldn't tell anyone that they should break the law. But this law seems destined to be bent. What does 250w mean? Peak power? Continuous? What?

Anyway I'm going to start fixing the folding ebike I bought. But I think this bike isn't what I want. But I still think it will be nice to have for company to join me,
 
There was a proposal by the government to relax these requirements, but it appears to have been shelved. I wouldn't support increasing the assist speed limit, but I think there's a case for more power to be allowed, to assist heavier, older and less fit riders.
 
Rolfe said:
There was a proposal by the government to relax these requirements, but it appears to have been shelved. I wouldn't support increasing the assist speed limit, but I think there's a case for more power to be allowed, to assist heavier, older and less fit riders.
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250w is too low. California was the first State in the US to set rules and laws for E-bikes in the US. About 20 States including Washington State has essentially copied California. But I can see why the UK might want to prohibit class 3 Ebikes. Having a bike that can go 28mph really is a motorcycle. But the class 1 and 2 bikes have a speed limiter. When you reach 20 the bike motor cuts out. The class 3 Ebikes that have the limiter at 28 and are allowed road only. It's against the law to ride them on sidewalks and bike paths.

For me, if I want a motorcycle rush I'll ride a motorcycle. I want the ebike motor to help me with getting a bike moving or getting up a hill. A 250w is OK but that extra wattage makes a big difference. E-bike adoption can go a long way to get people out of their cars.
 
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I agree, especially in hilly areas. I could use 500 watts, I suspect. I wonder what they think would go wrong if they allowed 500 watts but kept all the other regs as they are? (Motor only engages when the rider is pedalling, and cuts out at 15.5 mph.)
 
I don't think it needs to be only pedal assist though. That's fine for riders like you and me. But people that intend to use the ebike for commuting might prefer the ability of using the throttle. Why not? But yes, keep the the speed limiter. At 15.5, the UK would stll have set the limit 4.5 to 12.5 miles slower than most of the US. I'm of the opinion that we should encourage people to use an ebike to commute as opposed to a Sunday ride.
 
acbytesla said:
I don't think it needs to be only pedal assist though. That's fine for riders like you and me. But people that intend to use the ebike for commuting might prefer the ability of using the throttle. Why not? But yes, keep the the speed limiter. At 15.5, the UK would stll have set the limit 4.5 to 12.5 miles slower than most of the US. I'm of the opinion that we should encourage people to use an ebike to commute as opposed to a Sunday ride.
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I agree, but unless you're living in the mountains (and there aren't many of those in the UK) then 250w seems plenty for commuting purposes. I see plenty of people of all ages and abilities zipping around on eBikes over here. Maybe some of them would like to travel faster than 15.5 mph with assist but then again they're likely to be on infrastructure shared with pedestrians and the speed differentials could become dangerous. Mrs Don isn't a MALIL by any stretch of imagination but she manages the hill up to Don Towers, the 16% slope out of the village and even the 25% climb up The Scowles with no problem with the 250w assist set to level 2 (out of 3). For very steep slopes torque is probably a factor as well and she has a comparatively low torque motor on her bike.

I currently ride a fair amount (>5,000 miles a year) and left to my own devices, and where the road infrastructure allows it, typically average between 15 and 20 mph. From time to time I have to go on shared paths (around Portishead is particularly bad) and I wouldn't dream of going 10 mph much less 20 mph because of all the pedestrians, dogs, pushchairs and so on.

IMO if you don't have to pedal to get eAssist then it's no longer a bicycle, it's an eScooter or an eMotorbike, and should be treated accordingly but that's just my view. I think that if it's limited to 15.5 mph and under a certain weight then there's no need for it to be taxed, insured and for the rider to have a licence. YMMV
 
The Don said:
I agree, but unless you're living in the mountains (and there aren't many of those in the UK) then 250w seems plenty for commuting purposes. I see plenty of people of all ages and abilities zipping around on eBikes over here. Maybe some of them would like to travel faster than 15.5 mph with assist but then again they're likely to be on infrastructure shared with pedestrians and the speed differentials could become dangerous. Mrs Don isn't a MALIL by any stretch of imagination but she manages the hill up to Don Towers, the 16% slope out of the village and even the 25% climb up The Scowles with no problem with the 250w assist set to level 2 (out of 3). For very steep slopes torque is probably a factor as well and she has a comparatively low torque motor on her bike.

I currently ride a fair amount (>5,000 miles a year) and left to my own devices, and where the road infrastructure allows it, typically average between 15 and 20 mph. From time to time I have to go on shared paths (around Portishead is particularly bad) and I wouldn't dream of going 10 mph much less 20 mph because of all the pedestrians, dogs, pushchairs and so on.

IMO if you don't have to pedal to get eAssist then it's no longer a bicycle, it's an eScooter or an eMotorbike, and should be treated accordingly but that's just my view. I think that if it's limited to 15.5 mph and under a certain weight then there's no need for it to be taxed, insured and for the rider to have a licence. YMMV
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I can pretty much guarantee that you have those slopes figures wrong. Read this article if you think I'm smoking something.

How Steep of a Hill Can You Ride an Electric Bike? | Exploring the Limits of E-Bike Climbing

Curious about the capabilities of electric bikes on steep hills? Discover how steep of a hill you can ride an electric bike on and explore the limits of e-bike climbing. Find out if an electric bike can handle your favorite uphill routes and get ready for an exhilarating ride.
www.sixthreezero.com www.sixthreezero.com

The famed Alpe d'Huez is probably the most famous climb in the Tour de France. It's a must-do ride for serious road cyclists. It is known for: hairpin turns and the steep gradient. The climb has
an average gradient of 8.1% and a maximum gradient of 13%

The extra power is not about speed, but extra weight. A 250 watt motor on a flat surface will be enough for 90% of riders out there. Add a slope and little extra weight, the extra power makes huge difference. Maybe the UK is so flat the extra power doesn't matter and I'm talking out my ass. My impression of the UK when I was there that it was hillier the farther North you are. Scotland definitely had some serious hills. London wasn't very hilly if I remember correctly. I remember the Netherlands to be very flat. .

I'm sure my experience living on the West Coast of the US has colored my perspective. I wouldn't say I live in the mountains, more the foothills of the Cascade mountain range. It is hilly around here from Alaska all the way to LA. The extra power for a 200 pound rider like me is greatly appreciated here.
 
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