Electric universe theories here.

[Reality Check]

What is the Thunderbolts EU cult source for the neutrinos we detect, Sol88

Duplicate post.
Expect deafening silence from Sol88 about the Thunderbolts cult insane electric sun dogma.
Consider that we detect neutrinos from solar fusion. Add that we are not flooded with the gamma radiation from that fusion. Add that the only place in the Sun with the physical conditions for fusion is the core of the Sun. Add that basic physics (thermal pressure balancing gravity) means the Sun has to have an internal heat source. The rational, scientific conclusion is that the Sun must be powered by fusion in its core because the physical evidence supports that.

What is the official Thunderbolts EU cult source for the neutrinos we detect, Sol88?

That should be a source backed up with science and matching the real Sun (the measured neutrino flux, the lack of fusion specific gamma radiation, evidence for the temperatures and pressures needed for fusion)

For others: The answer depends which cult member you ask!
Testing the Electric Universe In Pseudoscience by Brian Koberlein 25 February 2014 looked at a EU e-book with endorsements by Wallace Thornhill and Dr Donald E Scott. That book just denies a fusion powered Sun and ignores the solar neutrino flux.

Just-So Story In Pseudoscience by Brian Koberlein 27 January 2018

There’s a lot of strange claims made in the EU model, but one of the strangest is that stars are not powered by nuclear fusion. Findlay’s book reiterates this point numerous times, arguing that fusion does not occur in stars. In chapter 4, Findlay writes:
...
In Chapter 6, Findlay explains that stars shine due to cosmic electric currents flowing through a star’s plasmasphere. Rather than nuclear fusion, stars are powered like an arc light.
...
Of course the problem is that there isn’t just one EU model at this point, there are several conflicting versions of them. To my best current understanding, some EU models say fusion doesn’t occur at all, some EU supporters claim neutrinos don’t even exist, and some claim fusion occurs near stellar surfaces, but (as far as I know) all claim fusion does not occur in stellar cores. Again, to my understanding, if core fusion were shown to be valid, it would overturn the electric star claims of EU models, and thus most of EU in general.

If fusion occurred near a Sun’s surface, it would produce neutrinos, so the mere detection of solar neutrinos is consistent with both surface and core fusion models. However, we can do much more than detect solar neutrinos. We now have measurements of both the types (flavors) of neutrinos and their energy levels. We know the rate at which solar neutrinos are generated at various energy levels. What we find is that the energy of neutrinos follows a thermal distribution consistent with the thermal distribution we expect in the core (that is, produced by intense heat and pressure). Fusion produced by electromagnetic plasmas would have a different spectrum, which isn’t observed in solar neutrinos. We know this because we use particle accelerators (electromagnetic plasmas) to produce neutrinos in the lab. More recently we have finally detected neutrinos from the fundamental proton-proton collisions in the Sun’s core, which is consistent with core fusion.

Even if EU’s surface fusion model could be tweaked to mimic core fusion, there were still be the issue of high energy gamma rays.

EU supporters posted some abysmal levels of ignorance, e.g. read the stupid "The EU model suggests Neutrinos are formed through the process of Fission in the photosphere, not fusion" comment !

 

[Sol88]

Blowtorch jets from a black hole drive starbirth https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/ab464c

Galaxy clusters are the largest structures in the cosmos that are held together by gravity, consisting of hundreds or thousands of galaxies embedded in hot gas, as well as invisible dark matter. The largest supermassive black holes known are in galaxies at the centers of these clusters.

The large galaxy hosting the black hole is surrounded by hot gas with temperatures of millions of degrees.

This hot gas loses energy as it glows in X-rays, which should cause it to cool until it can form large numbers of stars. However, in all other observed galaxy clusters, bursts of energy driven by such a black hole keep most of the hot gas from cooling, preventing widespread star birth.

Hot gas? Really?

This is still taught in schools today.... Going lthrough a phase

Solid, add heat, get
Liquid, keep adding heat, get
Gas, add even more heat, get
Plasma!!!!

But

I make a plasma like this, Plasma globe

When voltage is applied, a plasma is formed within the container.

I’m pretty sure that’s how scientists produce plasma in a lab????

Anywhoo, moving on... Measurement of the Electric Current in a Kpc-Scale Jet

We present radio emission, polarization, and Faraday rotation maps of the radio jet of the galaxy 3C303.

From this data we derive the magnetoplasma and electrodynamic parameters of this 50 kpc long jet.

For a {∼2} kpc segment of this jet we obtain for the first time a direct determination of a {\it galactic}-scale electric current (∼3×10^18 A), and its direction − {\it positive} away from the AGN. Our analysis strongly supports a model where the jet energy flow is mainly electromagnetic.

 

[JeanTate]

Blowtorch jets from a black hole drive starbirth https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/ab464c









Hot gas? Really?

This is still taught in schools today.... Going lthrough a phase

Solid, add heat, get
Liquid, keep adding heat, get
Gas, add even more heat, get
Plasma!!!!

But

I make a plasma like this, Plasma globe

When voltage is applied, a plasma is formed within the container.

I’m pretty sure that’s how scientists produce plasma in a lab????

Anywhoo, moving on... Measurement of the Electric Current in a Kpc-Scale Jet

Sol88, I hate to break this to you*, but none of this is particularly new, and - more pertinent for this thread - it has nothing whatsoever to do with Velikovsky’s nonsense.

I am puzzled by one thing though ... why do you consider this worthy of being posted here? I mean, it’s far from the first time it’s been pointed out to you that a) astrophysicists have had this sort of thing in their textbooks for decades, and b) it has nothing to do with giant, inter-galactic Birkeland currents powering stars.


* no, not really

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - his "gas" insanity about mainstream astronomy

Blowtorch jets from a black hole drive starbirth https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/ab464c..

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - his "gas" insanity about mainstream astronomy.

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - a "plasma globe" is not an electric universe theory

Plasma globe ...

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - a "plasma globe" is not an electric universe theory.
Usual abysmal ignorance from Sol88. Scientists produce plasma in various ways in the lab. Heat a gas with electric discharges. Heat a gas in a heater. Heat a gas with radio waves. Heat a gas with lasers.

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - citing mainstream astronomy

Measurement of the Electric Current in a Kpc-Scale Jet[/B]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - citing mainstream astronomy.

11 November 2019: What is the Thunderbolts EU cult source for the neutrinos we detect, Sol88 (so far deafening silence from Sol88!)

 

[jonesdave116]

Anywhoo, moving on... Measurement of the Electric Current in a Kpc-Scale Jet

Quote:
We present radio emission, polarization, and Faraday rotation maps of the radio jet of the galaxy 3C303.

From this data we derive the magnetoplasma and electrodynamic parameters of this 50 kpc long jet.

Uh-huh. And in the EU woo, which way should these jets be going? Assuming the galaxies are all forming along these impossible Gpc currents? In one side, and out the other, I would have thought. Not heading out from the central BH in opposite directions, perpendicular to the plane of the galaxy. As observed.
Seems like another spam and run post to me.

 

[Reality Check]

In the EU universe, what directions do galactic jets go

Uh-huh. And in the EU woo, which way should these jets be going? ....

Lets ask the expert !
20 November 2019: In the EU universe, what directions do galactic jets go, Sol88?

Not what you imagine the EU answer to be but what actual EU sources say the official EU answer is. The answer must be the officially documented scientific model of galactic jets showing where they start, the directions that they go and the flow of plasma along them as created by the EU mechanism.

The "official" EU delusion that I know about is stealing Peratt's model of a pair of Birkeland currents forming galaxies.

 

[Sol88]

If that's what you think, then the EU is toast already. Comets cannot be "rocks". While comet masses are hard to constrain, they are not so extremely uncertain as to confuse "ice" and "rock". Comet densities are constrained to the range of about 0.3 to 1.5 gm/cm³ in numerous different ways, from dynamic orbit modeling to direct observation. Compare this to the density of water ice, 1.0 gm/cm³, and light "rocks" which range from 2-3 gm/cm³ (coal is the lightest "rock" at 1.1-1.4 gm/cm³; do you propose that comets are made of coal?). The average density of Earth is about 5.5 gm/cm³ due to the presence of heavier elements like iron (7.9 gm/cm³). Nothing with a density as low as 1.5 gm/cm³ can be considered a "rock" in any reasonable sense of the word. Comets are already known not to be rocks. For comet density references, see for instance Sosa & Fernandez, 2009; Richardson, et al., 2007; Weissman & Lowry, 2006.


Snipped

Yup, you have a problem Houston!

More likely, the values are comparable to the one generally applied to static or sliding friction of dry rock (see Byerlee law, Jaeger et al., 2007). Given that the 67P high friction coefficients are comparable, or even exceed, those found on Earth dry landslides (Legros, 2002), this implies a mechanically rocky-type behaviour for the cometary material.

The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

 

[Steve]

Yup, you have a problem Houston!



The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Rocky-like, young man, does not mean “made of rocks”. Ice is one substance that can behave in a very rocky-like manner.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yup, you have a problem Houston!



The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Rocky landslides contrast with muddy landslides. Which behavior would you expect from ice at low temperatures? Rocky or muddy? Obviously rocky, not muddy, since there's no liquid involved.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

...

Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is yet again.
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma (updated 13 Mar 2020).

Sol88 persists in his insanity of lies about posts and posters. If that's what you think, then the EU is toast already. Comets cannot be "rocks". is a post by Tim Thompson on 22nd June 2009. Then we had over 70 years of measured comet densities that showed how bad the EU comets are rocks, etc. delusion was. Tim Thompson cited reference to presumably that data. Now we have the data from 67P which includes a local measurement of the comet mass + a map of 67P = Mean density 0.533 ± 0.006 g/cm³ Note the error limits!
A rational, truthful reply to a quote about the scientific calculation of comet density would be the scientific analysis showing that the density calculations are wrong. But Sol88 clings desperately to his delusions despite knowing this measured fact about comets for 11 years !

Insane lie and insane insult that astronomers have written that comets are his demented dogma of actual rock.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn and all astronomers by Sol88 linking them with Sol88's demented dogma, etc.

Sol88 emphasizes his insanity by citing The rocky-like behavior of cometary landslides on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko which is about 67P - a comet made of ices (at least 17%) and dust.
This is not his demented dogma of actual rock blasted from rocky planets such as the Earth, including recent times, by imaginary lightning between planets as they whiz around the Solar System however his deranged cult wants them to. Then Sol88 and his cult go utterly insane with jets = electric discharges, electrical discharge machining of comet surfaces, a massive solar electric field causing what they imagine, etc. ! Sol88 has spent years lying about his demented dogma - he denies their imaginary solar electric field and rants about mainstream electric fields, e.g. in the interaction of the solar wind with comet coma and with comet surfaces when there is no coma to shield them.

 

[tusenfem]

Rocky-like, young man, does not mean “made of rocks”. Ice is one substance that can behave in a very rocky-like manner.

Don't expect too much comprehensive reading from Sol88, it is mainly buzz words that interests him.

 

[jonesdave116]

Of course, the whole electric comet nonsense is built upon scientific illiteracy. According to the idiots-in-chief, the Sun has a radial electric field. Which would do things to the solar wind that we do not see. Additionally, electric fields will be perpendicular to magnetic fields. And we know that the Sun has a radial magnetic field (IMF). So, how is this possible? Hint: it isn't. This is what happens when Velikovskians try to do science.

 

[Sol88]

Wow! discovering a completely new mechanism, even!

Never been done before!

With the aid of the "Piz Daint" supercomputer at the Swiss National Supercomputing Centre (CSCS) in Lugano, these scientists have now simulated the development of the protoplanetary disk both under the influence of gravity and in the presence of a magnetic field, thereby discovering a completely new mechanism that could explain previously unexplained observations.

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-simultaneous-simulation-gravitation-magnetism-protoplanetary.html

Now just add that the dust is charged (Dusty plasma) and there are electric currents and electric fields as WELL!

Then there maybe progress...

 

[jonesdave116]

Wow! discovering a completely new mechanism, even!

Never been done before!

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-simultaneous-simulation-gravitation-magnetism-protoplanetary.html

Now just add that the dust is charged (Dusty plasma) and there are electric currents and electric fields as WELL!

Then there maybe progress...

Nope, you are making ***** up, as usual. And your cult has planets popping out of stars like wet mogwai. Fail.

 

[Reality Check]

A lying and irrelevant post about the fact that science always progresses

Then there maybe progress...

A lying and irrelevant post about the fact that science always progresses!
Simultaneous simulation of gravitation and magnetism of a protoplanetary disk describes the mainstream Global Simulations of Self-gravitating Magnetized Protoplanetary Disks paper.

An ignorant "dusty plasma" delusion. The proto-planetary disk starts with no planets, asteroids, comets and just a tiny amount of interstellar dust! A purpose of the paper is to explore how solar system dust, etc. forms, specifically how angular momentum is lost during the formation.

Sol88 has been told many times over a period of 11 years about the properties of plasma. A fundamental property of plasma is quasi-neutrality which is that the charges of electrons, ions, and dust particles will shield each other at a the scale of the Debye length. For the interplanetary medium that is a few meters .

Sol88 has been ranting for years about MHD being wrong but now he cites a article about a paper using MHD! The paper abstract states their use of ideal MHD is "an admittedly poor approximation in protoplanetary disks".

And as jonesdave116 states, his cult has no protoplanetary disks. Or even dusty plasma! Just demented dogma and delusions about Birkeland currents and plasma pinches doing whatever magic their ignorant minds make up.
An example of this demented dogma about the current Solar System is We get actual insanity about DL's from the cult prophets. Wal Thornhill

 

[Sol88]

Nope, you are making ***** up, as usual. And your cult has planets popping out of stars like wet mogwai. Fail.

Seems you are not happy with NEW MECHANISM!

and in the presence of a magnetic field, thereby discovering a completely new mechanism that could explain previously unexplained observations.

Good on ya!

 

[Reality Check]

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is

...

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity about the electric universe is.
See The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma. And Most of the recent insanity from Sol88

This post: Blatant lies about posts and posters.
jonesdave116 wrote Nope, you are making ***** up, as usual. And your cult has planets popping out of stars like wet mogwai. Fail.
Sol88 is lying here by citing yet another of maybe hundreds of irrelevant, mainstream papers.
Sol88's cult has the actual insanity of "planets popping out of stars"!
Sol88 lying and his cult being deluded is not the subject of whet Sol88 cited Simultaneous simulation of gravitation and magnetism of a protoplanetary disk and that article is not what jonesdave116 wrote about.
Sol88 has written another of the thousands of lies that document him making himself into a pathological liar. See A rant about ice in comets making himself into an pathological liar where he lies about ice"on comets when he has cited papers about ice on comets hundreds of times.

 

[steenkh]

Wow! discovering a completely new mechanism, even!

Never been done before!

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-simultaneous-simulation-gravitation-magnetism-protoplanetary.html

Did you really think that magnetism and plasma is unknown to science? This is a new mechanism that explains the collapse of protoplanetary disks into planets. This is not how EU explains the formation the formation of planets, so just how is this supposed to be good news to you?

Now just add that the dust is charged (Dusty plasma) and there are electric currents and electric fields as WELL!

Let me quote a passage from the article (which is very interesting. Thanks for bringing it to my attention):

The researchers believe that, through their work, they have discovered a completely new friction mechanism, generated by the interaction of magnetic field and GI, which significantly erodes the angular momentum of the disk. "Thanks to the powerful engine of spiral density waves, our new friction mechanism appears even more efficient in dense protoplanetary disk regions in which there are fewer charged particles to sustain the magnetic field," Deng says. "This is different from any other previously proposed mechanisms, which could not sustain the magnetic field in such regions. "
Isn't it your claim that there is lots and lots of charged particles in the - according to your theory non-existent - protoplanetary disk?