Electric universe theories here.

[jonesdave116]

plasma is a molten mix of negatively charged electrons and positively charged ions.

Molten? Lol. Like I said, the person who wrote that PR was probably almost as clueless as you about plasma physics. And it has long been known that the solar wind is a quasi-neutral mix of ions and electrons. The people that don't seem to realise this are the electric idiots. Just look at Scott's scribblings on this, or the idiot Juergens before him.

 

[Sol88]

And another EU loon not bothering to read the paper, which says nothing like what is in the press release. Which was likely put together by a biologist! One of the things stressed in the paper is the maintenance of quasi-neutrality. And, in my limited experience, what the author is suggesting re trapped and returning electrons is no different than a figure I have seen in a book I possess by Nicole Meyer-Vernet, on the solar wind. And that is from 2007. It would take an expert to go through the paper (which strangely appears in PNAS; usually biology and Earth sciences) and figure out what it is that they are suggesting that is different from what has already been proposed. That obviously excludes anybody from the EU cult, as they possess nobody with a scooby about plasma physics.

Electron temperature of the solar wind Stanislav Boldyreva, Department of Physics, University of Wisconsin–Madison, Madison, WI 53706; and bCenter for Space Plasma Physics, Space Science Institute, Boulder,
CO 80301

We concentrate on the dynamics of energetic electrons propagating along a radially diverging magnetic-flux tube.

Yup, your very limited experience!

 

[jonesdave116]

Electron temperature of the solar wind Stanislav Boldyreva, Department of Physics, University of Wisconsin–Madison, Madison, WI 53706; and bCenter for Space Plasma Physics, Space Science Institute, Boulder,
CO 80301



Yup, your very limited experience!

And......? What does he say about quasi-neutrality? What do the equations tell you? Why not go ask one of the EU plasma geniuses? Whoops, forgot! You don't have any!

 

[jonesdave116]

Perhaps Sol can explain the following passage from the paper that he undoubtedly doesn't understand. In particular the bolded part;

The ions, on the contrary, are not trapped by the potential but rather accelerated by it. However, their velocity does not change considerably by the potential difference; therefore, one can assume that they are streaming radially with, approximately, their thermal velocity ^vT_i,0, which is independent of the distance. Their density, therefore, declines as ni(r) = n0 (r0=r)², and from the condition of quasineutrality ni(r) = ne(r) and Eq. 2,......

Electron temperature of the solar wind
Boldyrev, S. et al (202)
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/13/1917905117 (paywalled)

Preprint;
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2001.05125.pdf

 

[jonesdave116]

Here, hopefully, are the images from Boldyrev and Meyer-Vernet that I mentioned upthread as being basically the same, as far as I can see;

Boldyrev (2020);



Meyer-Vernet (2007);



As I said, one would need an expert to read the paper and see if what is being proposed is reasonable.

 

[Sol88]

Top one looks very familiar.

 

[Reality Check]

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is

actuality for the intellectually challenged, no, not really.

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity about the electric universe is. See The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

11 November 2019: What is the Thunderbolts EU cult source for the neutrinos we detect, Sol88 (so far deafening silence from Sol88!)

This post: Implied insult of posters as being "intellectually challenged".
Anyone can understand what Sol88 quoted from what steenkh quoted in Did you really think that magnetism and plasma is unknown to science? ... was the single word "Friction" + ??. That was Sol88 not knowing what friction means !

Next post: A delusion about the solar wind.
A delusion that the "many important properties of this plasma which are still not well understood" can be explained by a demented cult's dogma that is totally ignorant about even basic physics. For the solar wind, they have the actual insanity that it is somehow driven by an electric field from a charged Sun as an anode or cathode (depending on who you ask or the phase of the Moon !). High school science students know that an electric field accelerates opposite charges in opposite directions. The solar wind contains electrons and protons that are both flowing outward from the Sun!
The article cited is irrelevant to the cult's dogma. Sol88 lies about this and lies by quote mining the article.
New research helps explain why the solar wind is hotter than expected

Solar plasma is a molten mix of negatively charged electrons and positively charged ions. Because of this charge, solar plasma is influenced by magnetic fields that extend into space, generated underneath the solar surface. As the hot plasma escapes from the sun's outermost atmosphere, its corona, it flows through space as solar wind. The electrons in the plasma are much lighter particles than the ions, so they move about 40 times faster.

With more negatively charged electrons streaming away, the sun takes on a positive charge. This makes it harder for the electrons to escape the sun's pull. Some electrons have a lot of energy and keep traveling for infinite distances. Those with less energy can't escape the sun's positive charge and are attracted back to the sun. As they do, some of those electrons can be knocked off their tracks ever-so-slightly by collisions with surrounding plasma.

"There is a fundamental dynamical phenomenon that says that particles whose velocity is not well aligned with the magnetic field lines are not able to move into a region of a strong magnetic field," Boldyrev says. "Such returning electrons are reflected so that they stream away from the sun, but again they cannot escape because of the attractive electric force of the sun. So, their destiny is to bounce back and forth, creating a large population of so-called trapped electrons."

Applying plasma fusion research on confined plasma ("mirror machines" ) to the trapped and free electrons gives agreement with measurements of the temperature profile of the solar wind.

Next post: "big banger acolytes" stupidity. Utter idiocy about the solar wind plasma and the Sun.
The solar wind is a plasma. Plasmas have the fundamental property of quasi-neutrality as explained to him many times.
Some "What keeps the sun shining again, compression!" idiocy. What keeps the Sun shining is high temperatures so that colliding atoms overcome the Coulomb barrier and high densities so that there are a lot of the collisions.

Repeats his "Gas laws in a PLASMA Sun." insanity. It is totally valid physics as explained to him many times to treat the plasma Sun using gas laws because plasma are gas eye-poppi) and are quasi-neural. The Debye length of the Sun's core is 10^-11 metres, for the photosphere it is 5 * 10^-6 metres. We can ignore plasma effects for scales over 0.000005 metres!

Next post: A lie about Electron temperature of the solar wind
jonesdave116 wrote And another EU loon not bothering to read the paper, ... One of the things stressed in the paper is the maintenance of quasi-neutrality. (my emphasis).
The quote is from the abstract, not the paper contents.

Next post: A "Top one looks very familiar." fantasy.
His cult have never published any papers on trapped electrons.
That top figure is "Figure 1. Sketch of the ambipolar electric potential energy outside the source r ≥ r0. The plot also shows the trajectories of some returning, trapped, and runaway electrons."

 

[Sol88]

Dind ding ding

we have a winner!

Sun using gas laws because plasma are gas () and are quasi-neural.

 

[jonesdave116]

Top one looks very familiar.

And is the same as the lower one from 2007. And before any eejit makes uneducated claims about the figures, r₀ is not the solar surface!

 

[jonesdave116]

Dind ding ding

we have a winner!

Instead of displaying your ignorance for all to see, why don't you just link us to a respected plasma physicist saying otherwise? We ignore anything you say, so your best bet is to get some backing from somebody that we might trust.

 

[tusenfem]

blablabla

With more negatively charged electrons streaming away, the sun takes on a positive charge. This makes it harder for the electrons to escape the sun's pull. Some electrons have a lot of energy and keep traveling for infinite distances. Those with less energy can't escape the sun's positive charge and are attracted back to the sun. As they do, some of those electrons can be knocked off their tracks ever-so-slightly by collisions with surrounding plasma.

blablabla

Of cours this should not come as a great surprise, as Neslušan (2001) wrote a paper about this, deriving a relationship between mass and net charge, which is given by:

we stress that there has to be charge Qr inside a stellar sphere with radius r, which is linearly proportional to mass Mr inside the sphere. Both quantities are related as Qr = 77.043 Mr, if Qr is given in Coulombs and Mr in solar masses.

So our Sun would have about a 77 Coulomb charge.

ETA:
The paper by Bodyrev & Egedal can be found here (behind a pay wall) (pdf available for those not sci-hubbing)

 

[tusenfem]

Gas laws in a PLASMA Sun.

I would love to see you perform plasma physics without using gas laws.
Please explain to me how pressure balance is created for magnetic holes in the solar wind magnetoplasma.

 

[tusenfem]

And is the same as the lower one from 2007. And before any eejit makes uneducated claims about the figures, r₀ is not the solar surface!

I think he means that that is "Juergens-like", searching for confirmation by "looks similar", the one is a real scientific paper the other a fairytale story.

 

[jonesdave116]

Of cours this should not come as a great surprise, as Neslušan (2001) wrote a paper about this, deriving a relationship between mass and net charge, which is given by:



So our Sun would have about a 77 Coulomb charge.

ETA:
The paper by Bodyrev & Egedal can be found here (behind a pay wall) (pdf available for those not sci-hubbing)

Preprint here, under a different title:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2001.05125.pdf

 

[jonesdave116]

I think he means that that is "Juergens-like", searching for confirmation by "looks similar", the one is a real scientific paper the other a fairytale story.

Ahhh, I see. From what I recall Juergens didn't even know that there were electrons in the solar wind! Just like Scott, he had ions flowing out, and electrons flowing in. Will have to check.

 

[Reality Check]

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is

...

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity about the electric universe is. See The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

11 November 2019: What is the Thunderbolts EU cult source for the neutrinos we detect, Sol88 (so far deafening silence from Sol88!)

This post: I stated textbook physic and get a lie by quote mining and nonsense as a reply.
I wrote

Repeats his "Gas laws in a PLASMA Sun." insanity. It is totally valid physics as explained to him many times to treat the plasma Sun using gas laws because plasma are gas eye-poppi) and are quasi-neural. The Debye length of the Sun's core is 10^-11 metres, for the photosphere it is 5 * 10^-6 metres. We can ignore plasma effects for scales over 0.000005 metres!

Plasma is a partially ionized gas that acts as a neutral gas above the Debye length.

 

[Reality Check]

Of cours this should not come as a great surprise, as Neslušan (2001) wrote a paper about this, deriving a relationship between mass and net charge, which is given by:
...
So our Sun would have about a 77 Coulomb charge.

One thing we should emphasize before Sol88 starts ranting about this paper is that this 77 Coulomb charge does not give the imaginary, massive solar electric field stretching out for many AU (causing electric discharges that rip imaginary rock apart, deflecting spacecraft trajectories, etc.) his dogma demands.
On the global electrostatic charge of stars

As was discovered in the nineteen-twenties, a significant electric field exists in the solar corona as well as in the solar interior. This field is a consequence of the tendency of light electrons to segregate from heavier protons in the solar gravitational field. ...

(my emphasis) The size of the solar corona is millions of kilometres, not many AU.

P.S. If you wan to see how deluded the Thunderbolts cult are about the Sun, this 2008 blog entry by Wal Thornhill demonstrates this clearly.
He is deluded that "An undergraduate textbook on the structure and evolution of stars makes a star seem a simple thing". Even an undergraduate textbook will emphasize how complex stars are. What he quotes is a definition of a star.
He has an idiotic obsession with Sir Arthur Eddington and the state of knowledge in the 1920's.
He quotes Eddington making a statement of fact - all possible non-subatomic sources of a star’s energy had been eliminated by 1926 (his book).
He quotes Eddington stating a physical fact. A stable star balancing gravitational weight against thermal pressure has to have an internal heat source to provide increasing temperature with depth to counter the increasing weight with depth. That should be explained in the undergraduate textbook he could not understand!
A "But this assumes that a star is basically a ball of hot gas, obeying the standard laboratory gas laws" delusion like Sol88's. We assume that the Sun is what it is - a ball of plasma obeying the standard laboratory plasma laws, which include quasi-neutrality (acts as a neutral gas above the Debye length).
A "recently discovered a star that “shouldn’t exist”" rumor (no source!).
A lie that Kristian Birkeland published an electric theory of the Sun. Birkeland wrote a book with a radium powered Sun + my experimental model of the Earth sometimes looks like the Sun's surface (and Saturn's rings!) + + 3 speculations about anode/cathode configurations + the Sun is negatively charged in a lecture according to a reporter speculations and a solar wind of "electron pencils" creating Earth's aurora via what we now call Birkeland currents theory based on he geomagnetic evidence. He later changed the solar wind to ions and electrons. The solar wind and Birkeland currents are the only correct results from his book.
Charles E. R. Bruce's obsession with electric discharges in space because he studied lightning!
Ralph E. Juergens' obsession with electric discharges in space. And "he was forced to publish his ideas in obscure journals" paranoia and lie. There is no evidence given that he tried to published his ideas in any journal. What he did do is publish them in Kronos which was close to a newsletter for Vellikovsky fans.
etc. etc.

 

[Sol88]

Ding ding ding!

A "But this assumes that a star is basically a ball of hot gas, obeying the standard laboratory gas laws" like Sol88's delusion that the Sun is 100% gas, in the plasma state. We assume that the Sun is what it is - a ball of plasma obeying the standard laboratory plasma laws, which include quasi-neutrality (acts as a neutral gas above the Debye length).

Winner!

Oi, RC what would happen if quasi-neutrality is broken, such as at comets? or indeed, as the story states, the solar 'wind"?

 

[Reality Check]

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity is

...

As in the electric comet thread, Sol88 shows how deep his decades of insanity about the electric universe is. See The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

11 November 2019: What is the Thunderbolts EU cult source for the neutrinos we detect, Sol88 (so far deafening silence from Sol88!)

A pathological "Ding ding ding!" lie when we have telling him from many years that plasma are quasi-neutral (act as a neutral gas above the Debye length).
An irrelevant question about actual physics to derail from his demented dogma of comets, sun and the universe.

 

[jonesdave116]

Ding ding ding!



Winner!

Oi, RC what would happen if quasi-neutrality is broken, such as at comets? or indeed, as the story states, the solar 'wind"?

Firstly, it is not broken at comets. And secondly, it is not broken in the solar wind. Read the bloody paper.