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Elbe Trackway

tube said:
Daniel Perez lists the coordinates in the September 2012 issue of Bigfoot Times at +46 degrees 46' 0.83" N -122 degrees 11' 55.63" W elevation ~1200 feet.
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Thanks!

I was in a way hoping to be wrong, but that's it! I thought they can't possibly be this stupid.

Universally dishonest. Because the directions to the site, and the most important locational feature is the railroad yard. It would be impossible to explain how to get here without describing that it is at the north end of the railroad yard, and where to park. The second most obvious thing is the road itself, and how the site is so glaringly exposed to more than a mile of road. Anyone driving south on that road has a perfect view, and is only about 50 yards away when abeam the trackway. The bigfoot had to cross the road and railroad tracks to get down there. For what purpose?

The fact nobody even mentioned the railroad proves how dishonest they are. It also isn't enough to mention the road. An honest person would remark how the site is so exposed for so long a stretch, and how much traffic goes by. If you are there for an hour, hundreds of cars will have gone by you.

I have very much appreciated your discussions of the tracks and most especially the experiments that you did, it is so wonderful to have people with all these contributions. From living in the woods full-time my main perspective on tracks is to ask what this animal is doing. Nobody is ever hoaxing me so I have never had a reason to acquire skills in hoax detection. But it is always so obvious to me what the animal's intentions are that I don't need to put my nose down and follow each print. If they are really fresh you are usually concerned with concealing your own movements so you try to figure out where to place yourself to get the best vantage.

These tracks did not eminate from, nor proceed to any logical destination. They are in the mud amongst rocks instead of on the dry, smooth bank. Completely out of context.

If you read some of the early descriptions of this track setting, one guy said it was obvious the bigfoot was trying to evade humans. Remarkable mischaracterization. Many have defended the BFRO's research methods but the opposite is obvious: everyone hid the most important features of the context from the outset, and struggled to create the illusion of plausibility.

William Parcher has been saying that these "researchers" bank on the hoaxer being part of the pro-bigfoot club, and it was the research on the email ISP that proves that, along with the threat to expose the name, address, and work telephone number of the hoaxer. He's right too that they filter reports. Because we have made them and they've not fallen for it.

Isn't it interesting too that they claim they are not going to reveal how they determined it was a hoax. The lie is that they don't want the hoaxer to get better at making tracks. But it is pretty clear the reason is the forensics on the email, and identifying the person as a skeptic.
 
Jodie said:
I've never heard of Blu Buhs, but obviously the more prominent researchers that don't really produce anything but talk a good game are sell outs if this was the impetus for even delving into the possibility in the first place. As for MM, this seems especially ironic. I see now why JREF skeptics are so interested in bigfoot, it's like the layers of an onion, as I stick around longer the layers are starting to peel away with deeper insights into the phenomena, I think bigfootery needs it's on DSM category. Looking for cryptid hominids and bigfootery are two completely different things.
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Blu Buhs was trying to explain what he thought were the social or psychological motives behind accepting Bigfoot lore as a real wildlife issue. I think he is on to something. There has to be a reason why some folks are immediately drawn to Bigfoot while most could care less.

Here is an interview with Blu Buhs: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/079790in.html
 
I've long held the belief that much of the attraction of Bigfoot,JFK assasination plots,UFO's and other similar stuff was the feeling of self importance gained by "knowing the truth that the mainstream public is too stupid and/or brainwashed to know".
 
But this has now evolved way beyond what he is saying IMO, it's not that simple. What I see are acts of desperation for reasons that seem stupid to me, even if bigfoot really existed.
 
Jodie said:
No Parcher, it's only stupid when you give the proponent a lot more credit for having common sense than they actually have, that is where the skeptic fails.
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So a decision that lacks common sense isn't a stupid decision?

I'm trying to understand when believing in Bigfoot isn't a stupid belief.

Maybe the term stupid is messing us up.
 
The people that know the details of the BF culture and have been around a while, but still believe! Could be called stupid cause they should know better.
 
I'd say a belief in Bigfoot as a naive belief. Mostly stemming from a childhood attraction to the big fierce monster that "might" live in the woods!

Most people get older, look at the evidence(or lack thereof) and move on. Some ,like many of us here, still have a fondness for the mythology but know that there is an extremely low chance that it exists (bordering on 0%). Some refuse to let these childhood hopes fade...
 
See, here's why it's stupid for anyone...

No human has ever produced confirmatory evidence that Bigfoot exists. Humans have had tens of thousands of years to produce such evidence and have not. Such evidence is not the kind of evidence that humans cannot obtain. The only reasonable position is that if Bigfoot really did exist we would have already confirmed its existence by now. That bit makes Bigfoot entirely different from the Okapi, mountain gorilla, Coelacanth, etc.


Ask yourself this...

Is it stupid to think that Tyrannosaurus rex still stalks this planet? Yes it is? Why? Why? Why is that a stupid belief? Why is that stupid?

Because if T. rex still existed we would have already known it by now.

But you say "well that is subjective concerning when you apply the stupid label since rarity and obtainability must be sliding scales across space and time."

I reply "yes but we only ever need one single confirmation and we have never ever gotten that even once. A scale that has not started cannot slide."

The most ironic thing is that nobody can say that Bigfoot are rare creatures with any kind of authority. They are seen and documented all over the place all of the time. Possibly encountered more often than wolverines.

Seventeen people have claimed to observe Bigfoots giving birth in the wild. Nobody has observed a wolverine giving birth in the wild.*


* I made that up. But it might be true.
 
It's only stupid if the person(s) in question are informed, but since most of them get their limited bigfoot information from television and internet social networks they are ignorant, not stupid.
 
William Parcher said:
So a decision that lacks common sense isn't a stupid decision?

I'm trying to understand when believing in Bigfoot isn't a stupid belief.

Maybe the term stupid is messing us up.
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No, I don't think considering the possibility of bigfoot's existence is stupid, but when a person fails to critically examine every factor involved in an investigation, then that would be stupid. Very little is left that is convincing when that is done correctly. I consider bigfootery to be a separate thing from genuine research and that is certainly a stupid waste of time.


Ok, I just noticed your avatar, LOLOLOL .
 
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Can we just start calling Melba Toast? :D haha

This is how footers feel when they found out they've been hoaxed. Again. But they come back for more. Every time. Gotta love it.

ty.jpg
 
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I don't regard the belief in Bigfoot itself as 'stupid'. More ... waywardly optimistic, and I suspect the world would be a worse place were it not for a certain amount of wayward optimism.

What I do regard as stupid are the logical fallacies that are deployed on a daily basis as justifications for the belief. It's one thing to believe bigfoot could exist; it's another entirely to think that bigfoot tree-knocking (for which there is no good evidence of either) is a more plausible explanation than someone chopping wood or woodpeckers being active at 4am (both of which demonstrably and empirically happen on a semi-regular basis). This is not a made up example; it's taken from a recent thread on tree-knocking elsewhere.

What's also stupid is the refusal to accept that others may be motivated by reasons other than your own, not as noble. By this point most of the 'high priests' of footery have, by their actions, thrown up a sufficient number of red flags to make even the gullible slightly suspicious, but they frequently get given a pass.
 
River said:
Gotta love it.

ty.jpg
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Don't know which I find more amusing. Her employer's contest word-play, or the fact she worked as a Hooters waitress. Shouldn't she have... ummm... hooters? You know, big cantaloupe-sized boobies, not those itty-bitty-tomato-titties.

She just seems way under-employed.

RayG
 
Bigfoot belief is stupidity?

In some many cases, yes. I have, however, the impression it is mostly related to ignorance and having a cultural background composed by other previous beliefs which paved the way.

We, human beings, are complicated critters. Sociology and HR folks will try to build, create classes to frame us. Quite often there are so many intermediate types between these classes that one must wonder if the classification actually has some use.

I think this is valid for footers. Excluding those who are only in it for the money, there are many reasons for beliefs and many types of belief. Yes, one could build a simple stupid-non stupid classification. However, I bet 4 quatloos that there will be way to much intermediates and particular cases. The stupidity gauge will oscilate a lot...

It will reach its maximum peak with those who are not ignorant about biology, ecology, geography, etc. Believer googles A.K.A. willfull ignorance, in this case, will be the cause. Yes, one could argue its not stupidity but some sort of psychological impairment. And there goes your classification down the drain...
 
CN-
Good point. Is a person stupid if they have had a detailed sleep hallucination of a Giant Hairy Monster crashing through some bushes, and thus believe there must be a Bigfoot? I think it is human tendency to NOT admit that you have had what some people would consider "A weak moment", or a "defective brain incident".

If they are on mood altering drugs, with side-effects which include detailed hallucinations, are they stupid? They are simply trying to find explanations for what they have experienced.

When my mother in law was hallucinating due to an Anti-depressant drug, no matter how hard I tried to explain that she was asleep, and she dreamt these things, I could not get her to say that The Circus people climbing in through her bedroom window were not real, and that her husband was NOT sitting outside the window overseeing all this, while smoking a cigarette. She did finally believe me, when I found a painting her husband had painted 30 years ago, depicting strange circus people, I pulled the painting out of the closet, and asked if she remembered him painting this, and she said 'no', but evidently her mind remembered it. She is not stupid.
 
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William Parcher said:
Nobody has observed a wolverine giving birth in the wild.*
* I made that up. But it might be true.
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Kits are born in the early spring in a den of snow that is deep/high enough not to melt until about May. I'm not sure how universal a birthing strategy that is for an animal with a holarctic distribution, but I have no reason to suspect that it would vary much among individuals. I suppose some kind of den would be used in those locations that might lack the deep snow.

Ergo, unless someone has one of them there colonoscopy cameras, it's pretty much impossible to watch a wolverine give birth in the wild.

In contrast, we've got excellent footage of a bigfoot giving birth while standing in the crotch of a tree.
 
ABP- Good to see you posting again.

Funny how YOU haven't been around here since just before the ELBE trackway...

Care to tell us how that Elbe Burger joint is? :)
 
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