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Merged Edgar Cayce

Is it just me, or does this look like another variation of the "upstart Xian student shuts up stuffy old atheist professor" urban legend?
I doubt if it's just you on this forum ;), but she sounded quite knowledgeable to me. She concluded by stating:

"Later I learned about the underlying cause of psoriasis, a gut disorder known as LGS (leaky gut syndrome). LGS can manifest as all kinds of problems, not just psoriasis/psoriatic arthritis. So... the bottom line is, psoriasis does indeed begin in the gut. So in that respect, at least, Cayce was not wrong. (One can Google LGS and read the works of Walt Stoll, M.D., Leo Gallaland, M.D. etc.)

"Since I haven't read the entire book I can't comment on his other 'treatments' or descriptions of maladies, only the psoriasis."

You can check out Dr. Stoll's webpage at: http://askwaltstollmd.com
 
I doubt if it's just you on this forum ;), but she sounded quite knowledgeable to me. She concluded by stating:

"Later I learned about the underlying cause of psoriasis, a gut disorder known as LGS (leaky gut syndrome). LGS can manifest as all kinds of problems, not just psoriasis/psoriatic arthritis. So... the bottom line is, psoriasis does indeed begin in the gut. So in that respect, at least, Cayce was not wrong. (One can Google LGS and read the works of Walt Stoll, M.D., Leo Gallaland, M.D. etc.)

"Since I haven't read the entire book I can't comment on his other 'treatments' or descriptions of maladies, only the psoriasis."

You can check out Dr. Stoll's webpage at: http://askwaltstollmd.com

Can you provide any links to info from organizations, such as JAMA, FDA, etc, that recognize LGS as a disease/condition/syndrome/etc?
 
Name one. He did not DISCOVER diet as a treatment, he ADVOCATED it. That's not the same thing. I advocate air travel as a handy way of moving long distances, but it doesn't mean I was at Kitty Hawk, now does it?

Can you name one specific therapy INVENTED by Cayce, rather than merely advocated, in use today?
Yes, and both you and Psiload would know that if you bothered to check out the Meridian Institute website. Just so that you both know exactly where to go this time, click on -- http://www.meridianinstitute.com/projects.htm#PSORIASIS -- You will read there: "The therapies included dietary changes, colonic irrigations, castor oil packs, spinal manipulations, herbals teas and psycho-spiritual modalities to address the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of the disease. The participants then returned home to continue these therapies for six months, submitting daily logs of compliance with the protocol. Subjects returned after six months for follow-up assessment. Intestinal permeability assessments indicated that most of the subjects had abnormally leaky intestines. The subjects with leaky gut profiles also responded well to treatment. This pilot study is briefly described in an article titled, "Systemic Aspects of Psoriasis: An Integrative Model Based on Intestinal Etiology." This article has been submitted to a peer-reviewed medical journal and is currently in the review process.

"More recently, we completed another pilot study on psoriasis. Psoriasis Case Reports documents the very positive outcomes in this study."

So, Cayce's psoriasis therapy, which to my knowledge had never been used before, went way beyond diet. If you don't believe that, check out his actual readings at -- http://www.meridianinstitute.com/psorias3.html --

Again, some of what Cayce recommended for psoriasis may have been overtaken by advances in medical science, but the Meridian Institute is still using his basic therapy. So, unless someone here can document that Cayce stole someone else's psoriasis therapy, he absolutely invented a new therapy that is still used today.
 
Can you provide any links to info from organizations, such as JAMA, FDA, etc, that recognize LGS as a disease/condition/syndrome/etc?
I don't know that mainstream medicine does, but there are dissenters. See, for example, http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm -- Again, the issue at hand is not whether Cayce's psoriasis therapy is widely accepted, but whether any doctors use it today.
 
I don't know that mainstream medicine does, but there are dissenters. See, for example, http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm -- Again, the issue at hand is not whether Cayce's psoriasis therapy is widely accepted, but whether any doctors use it today.

It is very much at issue. If mainstream science/medicine do not recognize LGS as a condition then any treatment for it is bunk since there is nothing to treat.
 
Yes, Cayce's treatments ARE used today by medical doctors, such as Eric Mein. See -- http://www.meridianinstitute.com -- In particular, examine the material on psoriasis.
I actually have psoriasis, so this is of personal interest. Let's take a look-see...
Utilizing Dr. John Pagano's ground-breaking work treating psoriasis with the Cayce approach, special attention was paid to intestinal permeability ("leaky gut syndrome"). The Cayce perspective on psoriasis is that this condition is usually caused by a thinning of the walls of the small intestines allowing toxins to leak into the circulatory system. The body reacts by eliminating the poisons through the skin producing psoriatic lesions. The treatment rationale was to heal the gut, decrease toxicity in the system, and provide symptomatic relief as needed.
"Leaky gut syndrome"? If I needed more evidence that Cayce was an utter quack, this alone would do it, and the same goes for the idiots pursuing this premise. Note how at no time in the linked material is any mention made of an attempt to actually identify the "toxins" supposedly responsible for causing psoriasis, let alone success in identifying them. Yes, folks, unspecified "toxins" causing problems; always a sign of quality medical research!

You know another thing I find remarkably lacking? In Lurking's post, (s)he does not actually mention that the treatment prescribed by Cayce actually worked. Small wonder. I'm sure "Dr. N" was floored; he'd probably rarely encountered such arrant horsesh*t in his field before! Note that Lurking's description of events also does not say that "Dr. N" was actually convinced. So not only is it anecdotal evidence; it doesn't even support the hypothesis.

Here's a quote from a page on the National Psoriasis Foundation's website:
It is known that some people are more likely to have psoriasis than others, and this "susceptibility" may lie in the genes themselves. Researchers believe that for a person to develop psoriasis, certain steps must happen.

The individual must receive a combination of different genes (a combination which is likely to be different for different people) that can work together to cause psoriasis.

The individual must then be exposed to specific factors that can trigger his or her particular combination of genes to cause disease. These triggers are not yet fully understood or defined; however, certain types of infection and stress have been identified as potential triggers.
Both my mother and I developed psoriasis around the age of 30 while working in stressful jobs, made more stressful by unreasonable personnel policies. In my case, the psoriasis tends to flare up when I'm under stress, regardless of my diet at the time. So perhaps it comes as no surprise that I find the "official" position on the causes of psoriasis significantly more compelling than the "leaky gut syndrome" premise.

Well, as it happens, I'm seeing my dermatologist nex week. Why don't I run this "leaky gut syndrome" premise past him, and see whether he's familiar with it having any currency whatsoever in the medical community?
 
I don't know that mainstream medicine does, but there are dissenters. See, for example, http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm -- Again, the issue at hand is not whether Cayce's psoriasis therapy is widely accepted, but whether any doctors use it today.
Let's specify that issue a little, shall we? I'm sure some bozo with a medical degree who has since gone completely off the rails can be found who thinks Cayce was onto something with regards to psoriasis, but I'll be very impressed if you can produce a practicing, licensed dermatologist who does, and prescribes a Caycean treatment to his patients.
 
Yes, and both you and Psiload would know that if you bothered to check out the Meridian Institute website. Just so that you both know exactly where to go this time, click on -- http://www.meridianinstitute.com/projects.htm#PSORIASIS -- You will read there: "The therapies included dietary changes, colonic irrigations, castor oil packs, spinal manipulations, herbals teas and psycho-spiritual modalities to address the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of the disease.

That doesn't sounds terribly original to me. All of these elements are common in New Age healing literature. Was Cayce's innovation to combine all of them together in one huge unwieldy treatment program?

This pilot study is briefly described in an article titled, "Systemic Aspects of Psoriasis: An Integrative Model Based on Intestinal Etiology." This article has been submitted to a peer-reviewed medical journal and is currently in the review process.

It looks like it was published in Integrative Medicine (full title: Integrative medicine : integrating conventional and alternative medicine), Volume 2, No. 2, Spring 2000.

Oddly enough, PubMed indicates that journal only published between 1998 and 1999. Heh.

"More recently, we completed another pilot study on psoriasis. Psoriasis Case Reports documents the very positive outcomes in this study."

You mean here? Five selected anonymous cases, no photos (though the report mentions them), no way to check objectively whether their own reporting of their symptoms are accurate?
 
I don't know that mainstream medicine does, but there are dissenters. See, for example, http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm -- Again, the issue at hand is not whether Cayce's psoriasis therapy is widely accepted, but whether any doctors use it today.

That's not my issue. As I stated in my first post in this thread:

The main problem I see with the "medical treatments" Cayce recommended during his "health readings", is that none of them have stood the test of time to any significant degree, and, in the light of modern medical science, most of them seem downright nutty (examples available upon request).I have done the research, and I haven't found a single medical treatment or procedure which is currently accepted by modern medical science which was suggested, pioneered, or in any way attributable to Edgar Cayce.

For every downright wacky idea out there, from drinking one's own urine to "dolphin energy" therapy, I'm sure you can find at least one medical professional dabbling in any and every form of voodoo and foolishness. My original criteria was those Cayce cures which have become generally accepted by modern medical science. Just one will do.
 
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I too have a mild case of Psoriasis. If Cayce claimed success in treating it, I can almost guarantee that it was only a temporary fix. Once it starts, it tends to come and go, and it is very adaptive.

I remember one time reading about Zinc as a treatment. I took daily doses that were fairly large. The Psoriasis almost completely went away for a about three months. When it reappeared, I discovered that the Zinc no longer had any effect. Stress and diet also have an impact.

Having read numerous Cayce books, and having been a believer at one time, I don't buy any of it. Cayce got lucky sometimes, that is all there is to his amazing cures.
 
"The therapies included dietary changes, colonic irrigations, castor oil packs, spinal manipulations, herbals teas and psycho-spiritual modalities to address the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of the disease.

And which of these, in specific, are you claiming that Cayce invented?

Lemme see...nope, colonic irrigations go back centuries, even the Aztecs knew how to use an enema. (They made one out of hallucinogenic toadskin to get high! How cool izzat?) In 17th century Paris for awhile there the enema was high fashion.

Herbal teas, not even you will claim were invented by Cayce, I hope.

Dietary changes? Well, I'm pretty sure the notion of changing one's diet is an old one, since Epicurus back in the day claimed "a simple and inexpensive diet supplies all that is needful for health." A quick google turns up that the first European diet books were printed in the 15th century, and rapidly got very puritanical about what was healthy.

Spinal manipulation was mentioned by Hippocrates, what, 400BC or so?

And even Cayce supporters over at "holistic-nutrition.com" claim that castor oil was used medicinally by the Egyptians and as a folk medicine for centuries.

So I guess that leaves "psycho-spiritual modalities." Since I haven't a clue what that MEANS, Cayce may well have invented it...whatever it is.

Seriously, though, Rodney, which of these things are you claiming Cayce invented, rather than advocated?
 
And which of these, in specific, are you claiming that Cayce invented?

Lemme see...nope, colonic irrigations go back centuries, even the Aztecs knew how to use an enema. (They made one out of hallucinogenic toadskin to get high! How cool izzat?) In 17th century Paris for awhile there the enema was high fashion.

Herbal teas, not even you will claim were invented by Cayce, I hope.

Dietary changes? Well, I'm pretty sure the notion of changing one's diet is an old one, since Epicurus back in the day claimed "a simple and inexpensive diet supplies all that is needful for health." A quick google turns up that the first European diet books were printed in the 15th century, and rapidly got very puritanical about what was healthy.

Spinal manipulation was mentioned by Hippocrates, what, 400BC or so?

And even Cayce supporters over at "holistic-nutrition.com" claim that castor oil was used medicinally by the Egyptians and as a folk medicine for centuries.

So I guess that leaves "psycho-spiritual modalities." Since I haven't a clue what that MEANS, Cayce may well have invented it...whatever it is.

Seriously, though, Rodney, which of these things are you claiming Cayce invented, rather than advocated?
Oh come now, Ursula. First you and Psiload thought that Cayce's psoriasis therapy involved only diet. Now that I've disabused you of that notion, you're trying to pretend that it was nothing new. Take a look at a portion one of Cayce's psoriasis readings:
"In meeting the needs, as we would find, in the first we would require that there be a general relaxation of the whole of the cerebro-spinal system (osteopathically given, would we go over this). These for at least twelve to sixteen treatments, and these - as we find - should be given every other day, or at least three times each week - see? We would have a GENERAL treatment, with SPECIFIC attention to the eliminating system as in reference to poisons from the alimentary canal from the organs of the system, so that the eliminating systems become coordinating and cooperative in their activities in the system.

"When these have been begun, and at least three to five such manipulations have been given, we would add those vibrations from the plain Radio-Active Appliance, that will make for an easier circulation, more uniform HEATING forces - as it were - in the system, and bring about a better state of the ability to rest, and to feel rested from sleep or FROM resting. This we would use each evening when the body RESTS, preferable to night; though it may be used when the body is ready to retire. We would attach the anodes, or plates, one to the ankle, the other to the opposite wrist - see? And circle the body. One day on one, the next day on the other. These should be taken, if taken in the day, for at least twenty to sixty minutes. If taken in evening may be made a little longer period. These would be prepared in the regular way and manner.

"In the matter of the diet, be mindful that these are both blood and nerve building, keeping an even balance in the alkalin and acid producing forces for the system. PARTICULARLY, should there be much of - at one period, at least, of the day - the OILS of NUTS. These are good for this body, RATHER than meats; and at another period of the day let's have a great deal of the leafy and green vegetables, such as carrots, celery, lettuce, and preferably that that does not head - for this body; more soporiferous than that of the iceberg.

"In the matter of meats, beware of those that are much of the fats of same, and never have any that is cooked in its own fat, nor seasoned with the products of its own kind.

"As we find, these applied in this way and manner - at least two periods of treatments - when these have been taken for twelve to eighteen, or to fifteen, we would then give the information for when the next period should be resumed - see?"
See -- http://www.meridianinstitute.com/psorias3.html
Now, you can argue that the efficacy of this therapy has not been demonstrated, but if you're going to argue that it's nothing new, please inform me when it was previously used. And I don't mean bits and pieces of the therapy being used for ailments other than psoriasis, I mean the specific therapy recommended by Cayce being previously used by others to treat psoriasis.
 
Oh come now, Ursula. First you and Psiload thought that Cayce's psoriasis therapy involved only diet. Now that I've disabused you of that notion, you're trying to pretend that it was nothing new.

Beg pardon? Can you point out a place where I claimed, even once, that Cayce's psoriasis therapy involved only diet?

At one point I said that he may have advocated diet, but did not invent it, and asked for examples of a therapy he DID invent, but never, at any point, ever, anywhere, did I say I thought Cayce's psoriasis therapy involved only diet. I deny, defy, and poke you in the eye to find where I claimed that.

But if you want to believe you've disabused me of a notion I never actually have held, go right ahead, I'm sure. I'd hate to confuse you with facts.
 
It is very much at issue. If mainstream science/medicine do not recognize LGS as a condition then any treatment for it is bunk since there is nothing to treat.

Come on Rodney. If Cayce diagnosed psoriasis as being caused by LGS, or a functionally similar malady, and that malady does not exist then at best... at best and his recommendations for curing the psoriasis worked, he was only hitting 50% on the reading.
 
Beg pardon? Can you point out a place where I claimed, even once, that Cayce's psoriasis therapy involved only diet?

At one point I said that he may have advocated diet, but did not invent it, and asked for examples of a therapy he DID invent, but never, at any point, ever, anywhere, did I say I thought Cayce's psoriasis therapy involved only diet. I deny, defy, and poke you in the eye to find where I claimed that.

But if you want to believe you've disabused me of a notion I never actually have held, go right ahead, I'm sure. I'd hate to confuse you with facts.
Then I'm confused by your following post in this thread (#120):

Originally Posted by Rodney:
Studies are on-going and many successes are claimed. No, that's not definitive proof, but the question was: "Did Edgar Cayce discover any medical therapies that doctors, real doctors, of today use... or even real doctors in the past?" The answer is, unequivocally, yes.

Response by Ursula:
Name one. He did not DISCOVER diet as a treatment, he ADVOCATED it. That's not the same thing. I advocate air travel as a handy way of moving long distances, but it doesn't mean I was at Kitty Hawk, now does it?

Can you name one specific therapy INVENTED by Cayce, rather than merely advocated, in use today?
__________________________________________________________
Why did you (and Psiload) initially focus exclusively on diet, if you knew that there was more than diet to Cayce's psoriasis therapy?
 
Come on Rodney. If Cayce diagnosed psoriasis as being caused by LGS, or a functionally similar malady, and that malady does not exist then at best... at best and his recommendations for curing the psoriasis worked, he was only hitting 50% on the reading.
I would think, if Cayce's psoriasis therapy worked for a given patient, that patient would say that Cayce batted 100% on that reading. In any event, some doctors believe that LGS does exist, so let's stay tuned and see what on-going medical research turns up.
 
Then I'm confused by your following post in this thread (#120):

Yup, you're confused. That bit was in response to Psiload's statement above. If you look through my posts, however, you'll find that at no point did I ever claim that diet was Cayce's only treatment for psioriasis.

If you're going to crow that you've disabused me of an assumption, I suggest making damn sure you're not making assumptions yourself.
 
Except we're not interested in what the patient thinks; we're interested in what can be demonstrated by OBJECTIVE evidence. In Arken's scenario, Cayce's treatment appears to work, but he's wrong as to underlying cause. Because he's wrong about the underlying cause, then the efficacy of the treatment cannot be determined accurately. Did it work by an amazing coincidence? Is it just masking symptoms? Did it just go away on its own? Rodney, your Wall of Ignorance is astounding; have you always been this way or did you have to work on it by hitting your head against heavy objects?
 
UrsulaV,
And even Cayce supporters over at "holistic-nutrition.com" claim that castor oil was used medicinally by the Egyptians and as a folk medicine for centuries.

This may be true, but I recall that Cayce claimed to be the reincarnation of an important Atlantian Scientist who went to Egypt just before Atlantis was destroyed. He brought to Egypt many of the advanced Atlantian technologies, including the technology of pyramid construction. In this former life, Cayce was known as "Ra" or Maybe Ra-Ta. I don't remember which, it was some time ago that I read his books.

So maybe Cayce did bring caster oil from Atlantis to Egypt when he was Ra.

It's possible.:D
 
In Arken's scenario, Cayce's treatment appears to work, but he's wrong as to underlying cause. Because he's wrong about the underlying cause, then the efficacy of the treatment cannot be determined accurately. Did it work by an amazing coincidence?
I think you've just solved the mystery of Edgar Cayce. He didn't know squat, he just cured a lot of his patients by "amazing coincidences."
 

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