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Merged Edgar Cayce

UrsulaV said:
Yup, you're confused. That bit was in response to Psiload's statement above. If you look through my posts, however, you'll find that at no point did I ever claim that diet was Cayce's only treatment for psioriasis.

If you're going to crow that you've disabused me of an assumption, I suggest making damn sure you're not making assumptions yourself.
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I thought I made a logical inference about your position and Psiload's but, if not, I apologize.
 
Rodney said:
I think you've just solved the mystery of Edgar Cayce. He didn't know squat, he just cured a lot of his patients by "amazing coincidences."
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That and subjective validation, confirmation bias, the placebo effect, selective reporting, etc...
 
Interesting that he doesn't consider my other options -- masking symptoms and the problem going away on its own regardless of treatment.
 
Nope, just the ones that don't use scientific methodology to test them. In otherwords, yes.
 
The better question is "what IS scientific about their methods? There is less to list. However, why are these articles not published for peer-review? Why aren't these methods being used by real doctors in real clinics that have tested these methods clinically? Why aren't REAL doctors using these methods? Why is there no scientific evidence to show that these treatments work? Why is it that quack organizations are your source of information?
 
Rodney said:
I think you've just solved the mystery of Edgar Cayce. He didn't know squat, he just cured a lot of his patients by "amazing coincidences."
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It's not an established fact that he cured anyone with any of his treatments.
 
thaiboxerken said:
The better question is "what IS scientific about their methods? There is less to list. However, why are these articles not published for peer-review? Why aren't these methods being used by real doctors in real clinics that have tested these methods clinically? Why aren't REAL doctors using these methods? Why is there no scientific evidence to show that these treatments work? Why is it that quack organizations are your source of information?
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You're dodging the question. All these men have medical degrees from accredited universities, and so they are "real doctors", no matter how much you try and pretend that they're not. Can you name anything at all about their methodology that is unscientific? As far as peer-reviewed articles, there is a tremendous bias against unconventional medicine, and so the evidence will have to be, as Carl Sagan used to say, extraordinary for an article to be published in a major journal. However, if you go the links I have supplied for the Meridian Institute, you will find that there is evidence. Your charge of quackery is a tautology -- if someone tests Cayce's treatments, he's a quack.
 
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Wrong, Rodney, there is much evidence that doctors cure people. The fact that doctors can replicate these cures in controlled, clinical studies is one of them. This is something Edgar Cayce did not do.
 
Rodney said:
Again, the issue at hand is not whether Cayce's psoriasis therapy is widely accepted, but whether any doctors use it today.
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Focusing just on that last item, a thought occurred to me: you've given examples of doctors who claim that "leaky gut syndrome" is genuine, and advocate certain therapies based on that premise, but the question that remains unanswered is whether even these doctors use said therapy. By which I mean actually prescribe them to paying patients and place themselves at risk of a malpractice lawsuit if they screw up. Types like Galland, Mein and Stoll can write (non-peer-reviewed) articles, books and web pages, and provide "health coaching" by phone all the life-long day, but do any of them genuinely put their altie claims into practice in situations where their conduct as medical professionals (ostensibly) could come under scrutiny from a review board or a court of law?
 
As one who lives with mild psoriasis let me add my voice to those who say Cayce's treatment is total crap. Psoriasis is a perfect disease for quacks and nut jobs to treat: it is a chronic condition that cycles between better and worse (definitely seasonal in my case) with no known cure. For most patients the symptoms would abate by themselves over the time required for Cayce's complete treatment. Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy...

Psoriasis has nothing to do with "toxins" or "leaky gut". Why is it that when quacks mention toxins they never specify what toxins cause the condition? If psoriasis is the body eliminating toxins from "leaky guts" then why can't the toxins be identified in the lesions?

Although there is no cure, scientific medicine has good understanding of its real nature (skin cells growing too rapidly) and can provide effective treatments in most cases.
 
Euromutt said:
Focusing just on that last item, a thought occurred to me: you've given examples of doctors who claim that "leaky gut syndrome" is genuine, and advocate certain therapies based on that premise, but the question that remains unanswered is whether even these doctors use said therapy. By which I mean actually prescribe them to paying patients and place themselves at risk of a malpractice lawsuit if they screw up. Types like Galland, Mein and Stoll can write (non-peer-reviewed) articles, books and web pages, and provide "health coaching" by phone all the life-long day, but do any of them genuinely put their altie claims into practice in situations where their conduct as medical professionals (ostensibly) could come under scrutiny from a review board or a court of law?
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According to --
http://www.meridianinstitute.com/projects.htm#PSORIASIS -- Six individuals participated in a 10-day live-in instructional/treatment program in November, 1995, in which they were taught the elements of the Edgar Cayce therapies for Psoriasis. Utilizing Dr. John Pagano's ground-breaking work treating psoriasis with the Cayce approach, special attention was paid to intestinal permeability ("leaky gut syndrome"). The Cayce perspective on psoriasis is that this condition is usually caused by a thinning of the walls of the small intestines allowing toxins to leak into the circulatory system. The body reacts by eliminating the poisons through the skin producing psoriatic lesions. The treatment rationale was to heal the gut, decrease toxicity in the system, and provide symptomatic relief as needed.

The therapies included dietary changes, colonic irrigations, castor oil packs, spinal manipulations, herbals teas and psycho-spiritual modalities to address the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects of the disease. The participants then returned home to continue these therapies for six months, submitting daily logs of compliance with the protocol. Subjects returned after six months for follow-up assessment. Intestinal permeability assessments indicated that most of the subjects had abnormally leaky intestines. The subjects with leaky gut profiles also responded well to treatment. This pilot study is briefly described in an article titled, "Systemic Aspects of Psoriasis: An Integrative Model Based on Intestinal Etiology." This article has been submitted to a peer-reviewed medical journal and is currently in the review process.
 
Rodney said:
Using your logic, it's not an established fact that any doctor in history has ever cured anyone.
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I knew all of those medical journals I saw at the library were just full of blank pages!

You may want to take this one back, Rodney - it really makes you look not too bright. No offense, eh...
 
patnray said:
As one who lives with mild psoriasis let me add my voice to those who say Cayce's treatment is total crap. Psoriasis is a perfect disease for quacks and nut jobs to treat: it is a chronic condition that cycles between better and worse (definitely seasonal in my case) with no known cure. For most patients the symptoms would abate by themselves over the time required for Cayce's complete treatment. Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy...

Psoriasis has nothing to do with "toxins" or "leaky gut". Why is it that when quacks mention toxins they never specify what toxins cause the condition? If psoriasis is the body eliminating toxins from "leaky guts" then why can't the toxins be identified in the lesions?

Although there is no cure, scientific medicine has good understanding of its real nature (skin cells growing too rapidly) and can provide effective treatments in most cases.
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I'm not sure that having a mild case of psoriasis qualifies you as one of the leading experts on the subject, but your opinion is noted. But let me ask you a question: Where do you suppose Cayce obtained his information about psoriasis?
 
patnray said:
As one who lives with mild psoriasis let me add my voice to those who say Cayce's treatment is total crap. Psoriasis is a perfect disease for quacks and nut jobs to treat: it is a chronic condition that cycles between better and worse (definitely seasonal in my case) with no known cure. For most patients the symptoms would abate by themselves over the time required for Cayce's complete treatment. Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy...

Psoriasis has nothing to do with "toxins" or "leaky gut". Why is it that when quacks mention toxins they never specify what toxins cause the condition? If psoriasis is the body eliminating toxins from "leaky guts" then why can't the toxins be identified in the lesions?

Although there is no cure, scientific medicine has good understanding of its real nature (skin cells growing too rapidly) and can provide effective treatments in most cases.
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It goes much further than just psoriasis. Galland, for one, has pinned just about every crime on "leaky gut syndrome" short of the Lindbergh kidnapping. He also lists:

Inflammatory bowel disease
Infectious enterocolitis
Spondyloarthropathies
Acne
Eczema
Psoriasis
Urticaria
HIV infection
Cystic fibrosis
Pancreatic insufficiency
AIDS, HIV infection
Hepatic dysfunction
Irritable bowel syndrome with food intolerance
CFIDS
Chronic arthritis/pain treated with NSAIDS
Alcoholism
Neoplasia treated with cytotoxic drugs
Celiac disease
Dermatitis herpetiformis
Autism
Childhood hyperactivity
Environmental illness
Multiple food and chemical sensitivities

http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm
 
Starrman said:
I knew all of those medical journals I saw at the library were just full of blank pages!

You may want to take this one back, Rodney - it really makes you look not too bright. No offense, eh...
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Your opinion is also noted, but keep in mind that I prefaced my comment with: "Using your logic . . ."
 
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