Drag Shows!!

[autumn1971]

I think you may be confused about the debate. Nobody said the government was attempting to silence them. Maybe read through the thread; it has all been discussed.

Then an answer to the first question, or any of the others is welcome.

 

[Warp12]

Then an answer to the first question, or any of the others is welcome.

Again, there was nothing in your post that warranted a fresh answer. I'm not even sure where you came up with the government being involved part, tbh. I'm not really interested in debating any of it with you at this point.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yes. Did I claim otherwise? Not sure where you got that from.

You compared it to a fetish.

The point was that referring to Drag Queens as a slight variation of clowns is, imo, a very simplistic analysis. Perhaps even disingenuous. Especially based on some of the "mission-statements" I've read.

Perhaps an equally valid analogy would be to cosplay. Can you link to one or more of these "mission statements"?

I have repeatedly stated that my primary concern is the voices of concerned parents being silenced.

What about the voices of the drag queens that these so-called "concerned parents" are trying to silence?

This is a common trend with liberals, these days. To downplay, discredit, and flat-out try to take away the voices of conservative parents. As usual, it is front-and-center in this thread, too.

And now we get to the lib-bashing again. Typical of rightists to turn every argument into an attack on liberals.

 

[Random]

Yes. Did I claim otherwise? Not sure where you got that from. The point was that referring to Drag Queens as a slight variation of clowns is, imo, a very simplistic analysis. Perhaps even disingenuous. Especially based on some of the "mission-statements" I've read.

I have repeatedly stated that my primary concern is the voices of concerned parents being silenced. This is a common trend with liberals, these days. To downplay, discredit, and flat-out try to take away the voices of conservative parents. As usual, it is front-and-center in this thread, too.

It's the Paradox of Tolerance. You must note tolerate the intolerant, or else tolerance goes away.

We all know where the anti-drag crew wants to go, full-on criminalization of anything that are not straight relationships or people. There is no advantage to be gained in giving ground, because they will just keep going after that goal. So you have to resist them at every turn because it is the only rational thing to do.

 

[Warp12]

And now we get to the lib-bashing again. Typical of rightists to turn every argument into an attack on liberals.

You can't imagine how funny that sounds, considering the consensus in this thread, and the overall venue.

Look, it does not matter where Drag Queens fall in The Pocket Guide to Freaks, Geeks, and Fetishes. What matters is that liberals stop trying discredit, minimize, and silence conservative parents and their concerns.

The fact that I consider Drag Queens weirdos, freaks, or whatever...I have a right to that opinion. Just like someone who feels the opposite has a right to theirs.

 

[crescent]

Also
Birdcage
La Cage aux Folles
Soap
Junior
Big Momma's House
Tyler Perry's movies
Ladybugs
The Crying Game
Back to the Future II
Ed Wood
The Boondock Saints
The Nutty Professor
Dallas Buyer's Club
The Danish Girl
There are lots more.

It should be noted that men played the roles of females in plays during the Elizabethen era.

It's amazing how people get offended over nothing.

I DID include the Tyler Perry movies (Madea)

But I forgot about Soap - that made Billy Crystal famous. Hell, without crossdressing characters on TV shows we would never have had Tom Hanks nor Billy Crystal.

 

[Stacyhs]

I wonder how many children were traumatized and groomed by all these horrible cross dressers they saw on TV? There must be millions of them!

 

[deadrose]

And we PNW people would never have had the pleasure of Gertrude the clown, girlfriend of J.P. Patches. J. P. and Gertrude raised both boomer and GenX kids around here, our constant companions both before & after school. We have a statue dedicated to them. Did I mention Gertrude was a Marine before her TV career?

 

[Warp12]

Regarding the clown analogy, I don't recall clowns having this agenda when I was growing up:

Jonathan Hamilt, who co-founded the New York chapter as a nonprofit, said that as of June 2019, DSH has 35 U.S. and five international chapters. The program strives to "instill the imagination and play of gender fluidity of childhood and gives kids glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role models".

Maybe I don't want my young children around clowns who focus on "gender fluidity" and "unabashed queer role models". You know, like maybe some don't consider that age-appropriate programming for very young children.

Of course, I know a lot of leftists just won't understand that idea. And they don't have to; they are not the only one's whose opinions count, fortunately.

 

[bruto]

Looking at the link in the OP, it's hard to consider this whole business as reasonable or about empowering parents to guide their children. The language is explicit in its extreme tone, and also in its expressed goal of influencing public policy. Sure, it's not itself a government site, but it is aimed straight at government and makes no bones about it.

Of course this is not really a site aimed at freedom of speech, but at the limitation of choice, and the incitement to action. Anyone who is even the robotic similacrum of a parent does not send a child to a mystery event without knowing what it is. No children are protected here from the content of shows. They, and all other children, are protected from their existence.

If, contrary to the opinion voiced above, the point of this site is to incite action against venues, then if the posting of false locations results in the wrong places being picketed, harassed, bombed, or whatever, then good. The organization deserves it.

If this is just a site where opinion is to be voiced, no harm is done anyway. If you're going to be a convincing poster, you're going to have to indulge in anti-drag rhetoric similar to that of the site's developers, and as Poe's law suggests, if done well it will simply swell the apparent numbers of protestors, and the site's stated goal of influencing public policy will be helped.

e.t.a. in response to Warp12's post above, "Maybe I don't want my young children around ...etc." ...then don't send them! It's been a long time since my kids were little, but I still remember how it was done. My kids were pretty free and their upbringing (not surprisingly, eh?) pretty liberal, but I knew where they were going and what they were doing. They weren't ******* feral!

 

[arthwollipot]

You can't imagine how funny that sounds, considering the consensus in this thread, and the overall venue.

That was deliberate.

Look, it does not matter where Drag Queens fall in The Pocket Guide to Freaks, Geeks, and Fetishes. What matters is that liberals stop trying discredit, minimize, and silence conservative parents and their concerns.

First, as far as I can tell by far the majority of people trying to discredit, minimise and silence people are the conservatives. Second, their "concerns" are utterly spurious anyway since drag queens are harming no-one.

The fact that I consider Drag Queens weirdos, freaks, or whatever...I have a right to that opinion. Just like someone who feels the opposite has a right to theirs.

You do have a right to that opinion, regardless of what I think of it. We're not talking about opinion, though. We're talking about actions.

 

[arthwollipot]

Maybe I don't want my young children around clowns who focus on "gender fluidity" and "unabashed queer role models". You know, like maybe some don't consider that age-appropriate programming for very young children.

Why? Why do you not consider it age-appropriate? Genderfluid and queer people exist. Do you want to lie to your kids and pretend that they don't? What then happens when they discover that they do?

 

[Warp12]

Why? Why do you not consider it age-appropriate? Genderfluid and queer people exist. Do you want to lie to your kids and pretend that they don't? What then happens when they discover that they do?

Whether I personally do or not, does that matter? Why? What should matter is there are a lot of people who do not consider it age-appropriate. You know, a lot of things with adult themes exist...rape, murder, orgies, 40-hour work weeks. Not all are age-appropriate for very young children, and nobody should be trying to discredit a parent's concern.

Essentially that is what you seem to be trying to do: present the case that these parents concerns are bogus, or of no merit. Well, I disagree...as do these parents.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Whether I personally do or not, does that matter? Why? What should matter is there are a lot of people who do not consider it age-appropriate. You know, a lot of things with adult themes exist...rape, murder, orgies, 40-hour work weeks. Not all are age-appropriate for very young children, and nobody should be trying to discredit a parent's concern.

Essentially that is what you seem to be trying to do: present the case that these parents concerns are bogus, or of no merit. Well, I disagree...as do these parents.

When they start proposing changes to laws that affect all others they are no longer acting in a parental capacity. They are simply people with political objectives. To refer to them as concerned parents is incredibly misleading just as it would be ridiculous for me to call myself a "concerned parents" when I'm making the case for my policy preferences.

 

[arthwollipot]

Whether I personally do or not, does that matter? Why? What should matter is there are a lot of people who do not consider it age-appropriate. You know, a lot of things with adult themes exist...rape, murder, orgies, 40-hour work weeks. Not all are age-appropriate for very young children, and nobody should be trying to discredit a parent's concern.

Okay, so now you're comparing a dude in a frock to rape, murder, orgies and 40-hour work weeks? Can you not see how completely disproportionate that is?

Essentially that is what you seem to be trying to do: present the case that these parents concerns are bogus, or of no merit. Well, I disagree...as do these parents.

Reality has a liberal bias. Their concerns are bogus, and of no merit. Drag shows are harmless fun. That's not propaganda, that's reality.

 

[Upchurch]

Whether I personally do or not, does that matter? Why? What should matter is there are a lot of people who do not consider it age-appropriate. You know, a lot of things with adult themes exist...rape, murder, orgies, 40-hour work weeks. Not all are age-appropriate for very young children, and nobody should be trying to discredit a parent's concern.

Essentially that is what you seem to be trying to do: present the case that these parents concerns are bogus, or of no merit. Well, I disagree...as do these parents.

And nobody who expresses those opinions are being silenced. They may not be taken seriously, but that's not the same thing. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences, no matter how righteous they may believe themselves to be.

 

[Warp12]

Okay, so now you're comparing a dude in a frock to rape, murder, orgies and 40-hour work weeks? Can you not see how completely disproportionate that is?

Of course I can; it was presented that way for dramatic effect. But remember, it isn't just the frock; it is the mission that is questionable to some.

Reality has a liberal bias. Their concerns are bogus, and of no merit. Drag shows are harmless fun. That's not propaganda, that's reality.

You can't demand facts as before, but then preach opinion like the above. You're not in a position to judge what is appropriate for someone else's child.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You can't imagine how funny that sounds, considering the consensus in this thread, and the overall venue.

Look, it does not matter where Drag Queens fall in The Pocket Guide to Freaks, Geeks, and Fetishes. What matters is that liberals stop trying discredit, minimize, and silence conservative parents and their concerns. The fact that I consider Drag Queens weirdos, freaks, or whatever...I have a right to that opinion. Just like someone who feels the opposite has a right to theirs.

And there it is again, pretending conservative parents are the ones being wronged when it is those parents trying to wrong everyone else by pushing their alt-right Christian agenda.

Why do these concerned parents need books banned, removed from libraries, and to stop drag queen story hour for kids when all they have to do is keep their own kids away?

 

[arthwollipot]

Of course I can; it was presented that way for dramatic effect. But remember, it isn't just the frock; it is the mission that is questionable to some.

What mission? I asked you before to post a link to this "mission".

You can't demand facts as before, but then preach opinion like the above. You're not in a position to judge what is appropriate for someone else's child.

No, I'm not. But again, this is reality, not opinion. Nobody is harmed by seeing a drag show. Nobody's child is harmed by drag storytime. Show me otherwise.

 

[Warp12]

What mission? I asked you before to post a link to this "mission".

We already discussed it.