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Dowsing will never go away

Dear Scarlett, one thing I know I'm no good at is getting the message across. For starters I really don't believe the million $ prize would ever get paid. Second I don't want it, nor want the travel involved. I know what I can and can not do and know many of us can learn the same thing. As for charity,well have you ever really followed the money trail and discover the fraud behind most charities? it just makes the giver poorer and nothing ever gets to where it should. We help direct to people we know. As for me being on this thread I post in the hope some one will pick up a "bit of how it's done" and I may learn other methods from other dowsers. As for the test? small stuff like tins buried you may be right as I have never mucked around trying that. But in saying that buried phone or ele. wire and all manner of pipes are easy to find providing each is thought of separate. Our minds are capable of sensing beyond visual input and the only reason that dowsing has escaped the witch hunts over the centuries is that it has been usefull to the elite. A cousin of my mother found water for the thirsty troops on Gallipoli with a forked stick, be hard to tell them it doesn't work.
 
Now you're just nitpicking the word charity. You could give the money to whomever you choose, but I agree with you. The million will never be awarded. No one will ever succeed in passing the challenge, especially dowsers. They have been tested a lot and have always failed, I expect them to continue to do so.
You are a believer in dowsing, good luck with that.
 
Old Bob said:
Our minds are capable of sensing beyond visual input QUOTE]

YES Bob, they are. This is where I totally agree with you. Your mind is capable of amazing things, including analysing visual input even though you are not aware of it. It is also capable of forming impressions and 'feelings' based on the input of ALL your senses and the information that is coming in WITHOUT YOU BEING AWARE OF IT!

Well done. This is why Dowsing during tests does not work. It is because there is no variable input that can be processed by your brain.

Are we there yet?, What is your next step?
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Old Bob said:
As for charity,well have you ever really followed the money trail and discover the fraud behind most charities? it just makes the giver poorer and nothing ever gets to where it should. QUOTE]

As I have previously suggested, Bob, This line of talking insults your intelligence and mine. Please pass on the million to the Alzheimers research charities. They will do good with it. It's my personal favourite as two of the great men in the world (as far as I am concerned) are sufferers. One, my father, who died with advanced Alzheimers last year, and two, the ever great Mr Pratchett.

I am happy to continue to talk with you Bob, but try not to use this line, it's offensive
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Old Bob said:
As for the test? small stuff like tins buried you may be right as I have never mucked around trying that.
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Then you have no basis for your claim that dowsing works. I'm sorry, but you haven't. Methodical testing, where the odds of chance success are known and can be compared with the actual success rate, is the only reliable way of determining whether dowsing works. There are simply too many potentially misleading confounding factors to be able to reach a conclusion based solely on anecdotal evidence. You may be right in your belief that your dowsing gives better results than chance, but the only way to find out for sure is to do the sort of methodical testing we have been discussing.

A cousin of my mother found water for the thirsty troops on Gallipoli with a forked stick, be hard to tell them it doesn't work.
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Most people are perfectly capable of understanding that a single anecdote, or even many anecdotes, are insufficient to establish that dowsing works. Most people can understand concepts like confirmation bias, the ideomotor effect etc when they are clearly explained. The only people who have difficulty grasping these simple concepts are people who are heavily emotionally invested in a belief which an understanding of them would undermine.
 
Old Bob said:
Dear Scarlett, one thing I know I'm no good at is getting the message across. For starters I really don't believe the million $ prize would ever get paid.
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Which would be a tremendous victory for the alternative crowd. Doubt the prize will be paid? Bring lawyers and a camera team and have them record the proceedings. Million doesn't get paid, you go straight to the courts. The law will be on your side.

Second I don't want it, nor want the travel involved.
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It's not only about the money (which can, as was said, be freely donated to a charity or hospital of your choice), it's about proving, under controlled conditions, that you have the ability you claim to have. Anyone -anyone- can sit on a message board and boast about being able to read minds, levitate, dowse for water or communicate with the dead. I could log on an arbitrarily chosen alternative forum and start claiming to be able to do all sorts of things and a lot of people would probably believe me. However, it all grows a little stale when nearly none of the claimants are willing to come forward and prove their claims. See also my running analogy from earlier on.

I know what I can and can not do and know many of us can learn the same thing.
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You know. The rest of us, less so. As a person peddling dowsing, you know how revolutionizing dowsing would be to so many fields if it became universally accepted (see my running analogy). Taking a controlled test administered by such a huge sceptics foundation as the JREF would be a huge step towards this goal. Instead you choose to hang around on a forum where no one believes you, hoping "someone might pick up bits and pieces of how it's done".

This comes across to me, to be frank, as incredibly selfish.
 
Old Bob said:
As for me being on this thread I post in the hope some one will pick up a "bit of how it's done" and I may learn other methods from other dowsers.
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That's fantastic, Old Bob! I would love to know how it's done! If you could just see your way clear to actually wanting a million American dollars and taking a simple test, I would then know how it's done!

You will have accomplished your goal of spreading the dowsing word, brilliant!

When can you start?
 
Makes me seriously want to take some sort of dowsing course for then to take the MDC, mostly to show that it doesn't work.

Not that it matters, because every attempt so far has ended in complete and utter failure for the person being tested, and it's not as if this matters to the dowsers:(.
 
I think that to a certain extent dowsers don't really want the 'mystery' solved. If it were, it would make them so much less 'mysterious' and therefore less likely to get girls.

They would have to rely on personality.
 
Old Bob said:
After reading the posts I feel most are verging on hostile just because of what I do. I post in the hope I may teach or learn as we exchange methods, but not to be. The dowsers that take up the million $ bit would be very lucky to overcome the distraction of a disbelieving crowds thoughts, plus one has to be careful not to show off. The only way I can prove that it works would be to have a bore drilled and the loser pay. As for donate and "save the poor children" haven't I heard that before. And my grand daughter? yes she can dowse and a smart kid too along with my wife. Many can be trained and what gets me is how neg. this group is. George152 I could think of a good name for you too. Cancer is foisted on us through our own lack of knowledge and when break throughs happen the hero gets treated like a dowser. Anyone for flu shots?
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well your wierd antisemitic rantings are more troubling to me than your dowsing:

jimbob said:
Either as appropriate.

Have you met Old Bob yet? He's quite "amusing" too. Until recently I was unaware that Emperor Hirohito was not "hung" after the second world war because he was a Jew...

Old Bob said:
Japan's royals- Hiro hito was a jew that is one reason he wasn't hung.
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I suppose one Axis leader [was hung. Other war criminals were hanged.
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AFIK I am as jewish as Hirohito, but that doesn't stop antisemitism offending me...
 
.

[/B]know. The rest of us, less so. As a person peddling dowsing, you know how revolutionizing dowsing would be to so many fields if it became universally accepted (see my running analogy). Taking a controlled test administered by such a huge sceptics foundation as the JREF would be a huge step towards this goal. Instead you choose to hang around on a forum where no one believes you, hoping "someone might pick up bits and pieces of how it's done".

This comes across to me, to be frank, as incredibly selfish.[/QUOTE]

Anyone would think dowsing was new, wood carvings from the dark ages show dowsers (some are still in the-) Even the bible hints of dowsing. As for selfish?? If your belief won't take in dowsing what are you doing on this thread? If the only proof excepted is a test with buried tins then what about all the countless thousands of hits on water etc down the ages? As I said before many have a religion that they can't see or touch but they believe? As for water everywhere, how about large mines and open cuts and yes they sometimes run into a wet seam but a lot of dry stuff in between. Some of the huge diamond mine cuts are dry to the bottom. And as for the Jew comment, "If the cap fits wear it" The organ trade has spoilt the good name a bit.
 
Old Bob said:
If the only proof excepted is a test with buried tins then what about all the countless thousands of hits on water etc down the ages?.
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That is the anecdotal evidence that justifies spending time and effort doing methodical testing to establish whether dowsing really works. No amount of anecdotal evidence establishes that on its own, because of confounding factors like confirmation bias and the ideomotor effect.

There are numerous cases of things done for generations which, thanks to the scientific method, have been shown not to work. "Curing" illnesses by letting blood or purging, for example. Astrology. Predicting the future by examining the entrails of sacrificed animals. Doing a rain dance to make it rain. The list is long.

ETA: Why are you so reluctant to try such a test, Bob? It would be easy for you to set up a self test of the kind I've described with the help of a friend or relative. If you're right you'll get the successful result you expect, and can come back here and gloat. So why don't you?
 
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Well Pixel get on that big old plane and call in and we will set up something, and by the way I don't do "gloat". Weathers great here, 35 c today. PS Don't bring dowsing rods or they will think your a terriost.
 
Pixel42 said:
ETA: Why are you so reluctant to try such a test, Bob? It would be easy for you to set up a self test of the kind I've described with the help of a friend or relative. If you're right you'll get the successful result you expect, and can come back here and gloat. So why don't you?
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I suspect that in many cases the answer is simply that the claimant knows he/she cannot do what they claim. They can't possibly risk a self-test which might show them the magic powers are not real.
 
catbasket said:
I suspect that in many cases the answer is simply that the claimant knows he/she cannot do what they claim. They can't possibly risk a self-test which might show them the magic powers are not real.
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No, no Old Bob actually believes in his abilities. Just as he believes in God; that jews are responsible for many of the worlds ills; that the Port Arthur massacre was a government plot; that homosexuals spread disease and depravity; ley lines; and other things I cannot recall at the moment. Dowsing is just one of his beliefs.

He is a true omni-woo.
 
As usual lionking got it wrong. God doesn't quite fit, but nice of you to explain. The rest is correct. Hope to see you soon.

Do not change a member's name in order to insult them.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
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