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Dowsing will never go away

Old Bob said:
Well Pixel get on that big old plane and call in and we will set up something, and by the way I don't do "gloat". Weathers great here, 35 c today. PS Don't bring dowsing rods or they will think your a terriost.
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You don't need my help, or that of any sceptic. All you need is someone you trust to set it up, and then leave whilst you dowse.

Obviously if you succeed you'll need to repeat the feat in front of a neutral observer (and I'm sure you can find a local school teacher or similar to oblige) as most sceptics won't just take your word for it, but in the first instance you need to convince yourself. I know you think you're convinced already, but your reluctance to even try this sort of self test suggests to me that, somewhere deep inside, there's doubt.
 
I am shocked at our ability to convince ourselves of things that are not true. I was convinced that dowsing worked for finding utility lines. However, after doing a few tests, I am convinced that I was using visual clues and the rods were doing what my body told them to do. Just a slight tilt of the hands will cause the rods to cross.

I attempted to take out the human factor by drilling two holes in a 2X4 at the approximate width that I hold the rods in my hands, so that they could swing freely. This does not completely take out the human factor, but your actions to manipulate the rods are much more noticable.

Burried electical line--No indication
Burried water line--No indication
Burried telephone line--No indication
Swimming pool--No indication
Known Water Table (two water wells lined up with each other) --No indication

The only logical conclusion is that I knew enough about trenching utility lines to "feel" the burried path and made the rods indicate what I felt.

I never believed that anything supernatural was happening and I have been wrong many times in my life (why I don't have any tattoos), so I am not upset.

These tests won't prove anything to anybody, except me, but I was completely open minded when I started. Maybe somebody else can prove dowsing, but I can't.
 
vman0909 said:
I am shocked at our ability to convince ourselves of things that are not true. I was convinced that dowsing worked for finding utility lines. However, after doing a few tests, I am convinced that I was using visual clues and the rods were doing what my body told them to do. Just a slight tilt of the hands will cause the rods to cross.

I attempted to take out the human factor by drilling two holes in a 2X4 at the approximate width that I hold the rods in my hands, so that they could swing freely. This does not completely take out the human factor, but your actions to manipulate the rods are much more noticable.

Burried electical line--No indication
Burried water line--No indication
Burried telephone line--No indication
Swimming pool--No indication
Known Water Table (two water wells lined up with each other) --No indication

The only logical conclusion is that I knew enough about trenching utility lines to "feel" the burried path and made the rods indicate what I felt.

I never believed that anything supernatural was happening and I have been wrong many times in my life (why I don't have any tattoos), so I am not upset.

These tests won't prove anything to anybody, except me, but I was completely open minded when I started. Maybe somebody else can prove dowsing, but I can't.
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Hi, great post.

I learned how to do pendulum dowsing, which is a bit different from what you did.

But when I checked it out, it turned out that it didn't work when:

(a) I rested my wrists on something, such as the back of a chair.

(b) I looked away from the pendulum while it was supposedly answering the question.

(c) I didn't already know the answer to the question that I was asking.

I should like to congratulate you on learning that you can't dowse. And I should like to make it all up to you by pointing out all the wonderful things in this world that really do exist. Such as trees. Or clouds. Or fish.

It's all wonderful, and the lie that the woo-woos tell is that it's only wonderful if it involves you having magical powers that the skeptics won't believe in. If you will just look at things that are provably true, you will spend your life living in a world full of wonders.
 
old bob said:
Anyone would think dowsing was new, wood carvings from the dark ages show dowsers (some are still in the-) Even the bible hints of dowsing.
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I don't believe I've ever suggested dowsing was something new.

As for selfish??
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Yes? Could you elaborate? Because nothing in the rest of your post has nothing to do with this subject. So again - given that succeeding in controlled tests would convince the majority of non-believers, including me, and that this in turn would make dowsing "mainstream", which in turn would save money and lives... how is it not selfish to refuse to take the MDC or a similar challenge?

If your belief won't take in dowsing what are you doing on this thread?
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What kind of question is that? I've made it perfectly clear that my beliefs will "take in" dowsing - provided you give me some sort of proper proof rather than "we've had x hits and an undisclosed number of misses, which means the success rate is unknown, therefore dowsing is real". The chance to win the jackpot in the lottery here in Norway is about 1:5 500 000, yet people win all the time. Yet no one claims they are all psychic. Why not?

If the only proof excepted is a test with buried tins then what about all the countless thousands of hits on water etc down the ages?
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What about them:confused:? How are they at all meaningful when you won't also take into account the number of misses throughout the ages, not to mention the context in which the hits took place?

As I said before many have a religion that they can't see or touch but they believe?
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Yes, I do in fact have a "religion" (buzz word alert) that I need to see convincing evidence of a claim, rather than just anecdotes and other worthless conjecture, before I accept it. So should you.

ETA: welcome to the forums, vman, and yes, that is a great post. Surely there's no better way to enter a sceptics forum than with an anecdote of how you became a "non-believer" using critical thinking skills and scepticism:).
 
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Thanks. I am just glad that nobody bet me a thousand dollars that I could not do it. My bank account would be lighter. I am going to check out the other subjects.
 
Dowsing is great and you to can learn it with open mind instead of a close one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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john glassman said:
Dowsing is great and you to can learn it with open mind instead of a close one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Like you did with grammar and spelling?



ETA: My mistake. I read a couple of other threads and now realise that's it's part of the performance. Carry on.
 
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Hey Old Bob these non dowser's are hard to talk too !!It's like bailing out row boat with hole's in them you know it will still sink anyway's!!! pm when you get time Old bob:)
 
hopfen said:
Whilst perusing the current edition of the [British] National Trust magazine, I found a credulous article about dowsing ...
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Bumping this and quoting the OP because I just received the next issue of the magazine and have checked the letters page.

There's a box containing four brief comments, which they say are "the tip of the mailbag" about an article which "certainly raised debate". Two comments are pro the article and two anti.

The pros:

"May I congratulate Jack Watkins on a first class article on dowsing? In my career as a police officer the evidence gave grounds to the truth that dowsing for the invisible was clearly possible".

"I often practise dowsing and am fascinated by the possibility that the explanation of this skill lies in the past. There is scope for further exploration - and with an open mind - to rediscover our early instincts".

The antis:

"I must protest at the uncritical article on the nonsense that is dowsing! Praise of irrationality like this makes it harder for the National Trust to make rational arguments elsewhere".

"Your article on dowsing was remarkedly one-sided. The truth is that, while many practitioners claim great success, it appears that their claims are more due to wishful thinking than magic".

I suppose it's something that they've at least acknowledged an alternative view.
 
Yes, credit there I suppose. Far easier to publish two of each than to actually engage with the issue.
 
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