Do we agree the towers were designed to withstand jetliner crash?

Prior to 9/11, what structural-steel engineering advances occurred in those "30-40 years" that argues against the WTC Twin Towers being sufficiently well-engineered to absorb the impact of those aircraft?

Which disproves the structural integrity provided by engineered-protection against aircraft with Boeing 707 specs very similar the Boeing's that actually struck them?

MM

There's a difference between being able to withstand the impact, and being designed for it.

And, of course, there are other factors. IIRC, the 767 is larger than the 707, and flew faster, with a heavier fuel load, then the hypothetical plane impact it was claimed the towers could withstand. No to mention that no official source claims it was just the impact, but the impact and fire.
 
Why would engineers in the 60's not be up to the task presented by those aircraft crashes?

Obviously, the Twin Towers stabilized immediately after the impacts.

Without major trauma to the core below the impact zones, there was no engineering reason to expect either Tower to become structurally de-stabilized.


Wrong. The structure was not designed to resist dynamic vertical loads.


No more planes to crash so the official hypothesis was left with office cubicle fires.

And so you argue that the engineers of the 60's were not equipped to design against the level of fire destruction hypothesized in the NIST FINAL WTC Report.


Off course.
There was no Finite Elements Analysis software in 60's.
 
Sorry Dog Town,
Just illustrating for NB that simply saying 'end thread' does not actually end it.

A hint that a thread actually has been 'ended' would be the inability to post to it.

The idea of conspiracy theorists struck dumber than they are?
I like it
 
So are we saying the white paper that includes the reference to a 600 MPH is in no way involved with the study Skilling references?
 
Last edited:
So are we saying the white paper that includes the reference to a 600 MPH is in no way involved with the study Skilling references?
No, he's saying it doesn't predict the future or means the buildings are impervious to collapse..

Care to explain how any of this supports your "theory"?

Bet you can't.
 
Last edited:
As I have mentioned before I am not interested in being drawn out of a specific discussion and trade that focus in on some other aspect you are interested in discussing. As to the relevance, any evaluation of a truth claim should consider what the scientific expectations of such an event occurring were before the event occurred. how many times do I need to say that?
 
As I have mentioned before I am not interested in being drawn out of a specific discussion and trade that focus in on some other aspect you are interested in discussing. As to the relevance, any evaluation of a truth claim should consider what the scientific expectations of such an event occurring were before the event occurred. how many times do I need to say that?
As many times as you raise it before everyone ignores you as a troll. For me it's now. Goodbye.
 
There were some good answers to this question. On the first page, #3:


  • They did withstand the impacts.
  • 99.99% of the ASCE/ASME members as well the worldwide structural engineering and materials science community, including Leslie Robertson, are in agreement with the official story.
  • The B-25 impacted the ESB with less than a sixtieth(1/60) of the kinetic energy of AA11/UA 175s impact. Apples/oranges.

Do you think the structural engineering community is wrong? Why?

I've heard people say "this is so 2006" in this subforum before, but I've never seen it taken so literally.



The idea of conspiracy theorists struck dumber than they are?
I like it

I had a paranoid commenter at a conservative blog convinced that I could somehow ban him, simply because I suggested it a few times.
 
Last edited:
So are we saying the white paper that includes the reference to a 600 MPH is in no way involved with the study Skilling references?
Skilling never said 600 mph. The white paper was not done by Skilling.

You put 600 mph to Skilling, not Skilling.

The reporter was mixing Skilling and the White Paper together, and they caught you here at the ...

end thread, open thread.

end thread
 
Last edited:
Not surprising that you want the conversation to simply go away. The question remains, who did the white paper? The question also remains regarding the likelihood that it was done by Skilling. I could also ask what is the source of your certainty that it was not done by Skilling? We do know that Skilling did a separate study, and that this white paper fits the exact parameters that we would have expected from the study he references. Who do we think did it? The janitors?

Also Beachnut I know you prefer your version of hit and run logical arguments but somewhere here you mention that it is a fact that no one considered fire in the studies. This is clearly contradicted by Skillings statement to the Seattle Times reporter. So perhaps you could explain your so called facts?
 
bolding is mine

"supercomputer performance clusters" mindlessly...

My core professional field is computational tools for science and engineering. I've spent several years designing, building, programming, and operating terascale computer systems for science and industry, including leading-edge FEA systems. One of my systems was, at the time, the third fasted unclassified computer in the world. My computers are routinely used in failure and pre-design analysis of structures.

You don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. None.
 
JayUtah- Please tell me how your specific understandings preclude me from understanding Skillings statements? Does 600 MPH somehow mean something different than 600 MPH if you have background in computer modeling?
 
Not surprising that you want the conversation to simply go away. The question remains, who did the white paper? The question also remains regarding the likelihood that it was done by Skilling. I could also ask what is the source of your certainty that it was not done by Skilling? We do know that Skilling did a separate study, and that this white paper fits the exact parameters that we would have expected from the study he references. Who do we think did it? The janitors?

Also Beachnut I know you prefer your version of hit and run logical arguments but somewhere here you mention that it is a fact that no one considered fire in the studies. This is clearly contradicted by Skillings statement to the Seattle Times reporter. So perhaps you could explain your so called facts?
Better try reading your source again. lol, hit and run? You have lied, Skilling never said 600 mph.

The white paper was made up as advertising; good luck finding the source of the 600 mph stuff (the study). However, a plane at 600 mph will not knock down the WTC towers, and you can verify that by looking at the wind data, and use some physics. Without fire the WTC would stand - oops, that is what Skilling said. Did engineering school pay off or what? not;, any layperson could see the 600 mph is not a quote of Skilling.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930227&slug=1687698
"We looked at every possible thing we could think of that could happen to the buildings, even to the extent of an airplane hitting the side," said John Skilling, head structural engineer. "However, back in those days people didn't think about terrorists very much."
No mention of 600 mph in the seattletimes.
Did you know at 600 mph at 1000 feet parts of the aircraft could fall off, the limit for safe operation, long life of the airframe, is ~350 knots. BINGO
Did you know the impacts on 911 were below 600 mph at impact?
Did you know Flt 11 was at Vd, a known possible speed for the airframe at impact? Did you study aircraft limits and speeds?
Did the terrorist know they were at risk flying over Vmo?
Where did you get fooled by 600 mph?
You got it from the nut who makes up nonsesne about 911 while storing all the info you need to debunk 911 truth and the nut who makes up nonnese about 911, at history commons, where the news is reported with added woo.

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=john_skilling_1
Nope, Skilling is talking about Robertsons low speed lost in the fog study, verified, at least the numbers were, that an aircraft at 180 mph would not do much damage to the WTC towers; verified at 200 mph by another study 911 truth will not find.

The Robertson study stands, and verified. The 600 mph, no source for that study. Only hearsay.


Possible reasons for 600 mph.

The white paper authors knew the WTC designers studied and impact, got out the encyclopedia and found 600 mph as the top speed of a 707. (Remember the top speed below 10,000 feet was 250 knots, not 600mph, and the top speed for long life is 350 knots for 707 and 767/757; landing speeds in the pattern, 180 mph. BINGO)

Next, it is simple to calculate the impact and see a 707 at 600 mph will not topple the WTC - verified on 911. A study could have been done by the white paper authors, who had no clue the speed limit was 250 knots, and they found a 707 would not topple the WTC. But did not study if the plane would damage the core - a simple study.

Robertson designed the WTC for a slow speed impact, which would cover Skillings statement. You are mixing up articles. Show us the Skilling quote of 600 mph. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
JayUtah- Please tell me how your specific understandings preclude me from understanding Skillings statements? Does 600 MPH somehow mean something different than 600 MPH if you have background in computer modeling?

Does it make the buildings impervious to collapse?

Come on, you can keep this red herring going. :p

It's all you got, you need to try harder.
 
JayUtah- Please tell me how your specific understandings preclude me from understanding Skillings statements? Does 600 MPH somehow mean something different than 600 MPH if you have background in computer modeling?

Apparently, Skilling never said 600MPH.
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom