Did Epstein run a World Satanic Ring?

[Vixen]

Who here has said that it is? Quote, please, no paraphrasing- you've demonstrated that you only do that so you can have something to rail against.

It is what we are talking about in this thread.

 

[bruto]

You said, to paraphrase, that Epstein was just a pervy old dude with lots of money.

Paraphrase it may be but it is your paraphrase and a little basic etiquette would keep quotation marks (or even half-quotes) away from a paraphrase. What I actually said was that I think Epstein "an evil character with flamboyant adolescent erotic fantasies, and enough money to get away with it." Paraphrases may vary here. Quotations never should.

 

[Vixen]

Paraphrase it may be but it is your paraphrase and a little basic etiquette would keep quotation marks (or even half-quotes) away from a paraphrase. What I actually said was that I think Epstein "an evil character with flamboyant adolescent erotic fantasies, and enough money to get away with it." Paraphrases may vary here. Quotations never should.

So we are agreed.

You believe Epstein to have been a one-man band. I believe he was in a conspiracy.

 

[abaddon]

Don't put words in my mouth. If I believe someone is say, Wiccan, it doesn't mean I believe what they believe. Just that such people do exist and have those beliefs.

You have declared such beliefs to be "satanic" and thus worthy of legal action. Do no attempt to pretend that you have not. Do not make me quote you very own words.

You take Mossad for example.

For an example of what?

Now spies no longer work for a country, they work for a power circle.

Evidence? Why am I asking, I know you have none.

A non-western intelligence agency (let's say, Russian to keep it objective) won't care about our values in the UK or USA. Why should it?

I am in the west. I don't care about your values because they are plainly messed up.

Let's imagine it is not Christian.

You are imagining all of this. I agree.

So to interfere in a foreign power it can use the tactic of compromising values by offering freedom from that country's normal social mores, like being faithful to your wife, sex by consent only, no public orgies, etcetera

Not a problem if one does not adhere to a religion. It is your sexual hang-up and your alone. You have no beeswax examining what may or may not happen in other peoples underpants.

and the only way to do that is to offer an exclusive 'fraternity' type organisation that offers discretion on remote islands and protection from being prosecuted or outed

Baloney. Post divorce, I have no shortage of partners. If one is in the mood, one can get it. WITH CONSENTING ADULTS.

Before you know it, this deep state, within perhaps another deeper state, has brought down the moral values of our civilisation as we know it and that was the intent.

BS. Sex is a normal human drive. Why on earth you feel the need to pile endless guilt upon such a normal human activity is beyond me. Next you will be claiming that the missionary position is the only correct one.

FFS, Tomorrow, I am on a blind date. She is 50, same as me. Will sex be involved? One can hope. But I will play it however it lays. You somehow seem to think that would be "fornication". And a "sin" against some "god" that is entirely invented out of your own fevered imagination.

I expect a pleasant, civilised date, but if sex does happen, I will PM you all the gory detail if you wish just so you realise that sex is a normal human activity, indeed a human driving force. At any age.

It seems Epstein and Maxwell were connected to Mossad.

And straight into wild conspiracy theories. Colour me surprised. Got evidence? Of course not.

 

[abaddon]

It seems perfectly clear to me that for Judaism to exist today it must have had a starting point, and Moses is as good as any.

That is the informal fallacy of an argument from ignorance. You cannot think of any other reason, therefore it MUST have been Moses.

Even if you disbelieve the Bible, fact is, millions of Jews accept the precept of the Ten Commandments and the laws as set out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Jews accept the 613 commandments (if observant). Didn't you know that? And which version of the so called ten commandments are you citing? There are three in the bible and none of them agree. Furthermore, jesus in the bible endorsed only five of those and added two more not in the ten. Which he plagiarised. Do you know which? I do.

It might be fiction but a life-style of not indulging in idol worship,

Who cares about idols? Not me. Anyone can worship whatever they like. I don't care right up to the point when people like you attempt to impose your particular idol upon me or anyone else. At that point the imposer can foxtrot right oscar.

fornicating,

What do you mean by "fornicating" exactly? If extra-marital sex, then you are talking utter BS. And I speak from experience. If other, specify what you mean.

stealing,

Plagiarised from elsewhere by the bible.

murdering is one enjoyed by many.

Is it? So you mean to suggest that before the wandering jews reached Mt. Sinai, none of them knew that murder was not a good thing? Really? In that case they would never have reached Sinai in the first place, being busy murdering each other.

The first two commandments are 'thou shalt have no other God before me' and 'thou shalt not have a graven image', these go back to antiquity and might be fiction as far as you are concerned.

Nope, it is one of those "tells" that jahweh was quite aware that there were other gods. But as the bible tells us jahweh was a jealous god. What else would he say?

However, there are millions of decent people in the world who do refrain from worship of idols and deities such as the generic 'Ba'al'.

Baal is not generic. Only you have tried to make him so under instruction from a priesthood with a vested interest in having you and everyone else accept such a proposition.

To me, Baal is just another in the thousands of false claimed gods. No more real that the pixies that make flowers grow.

Therefore - whether fictitious or factual - there are those who will do the opposite. Joining occult organisations means they are suddenly free from the restrictions or marriage,

False. I am all for fidelity in a relationship. But when such a relationship stops, one does not have to become a celibate forever.

being faithful and not having casual or perverted sex.

Your prudishness is not impressive. Why should YOU care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom? What business is it of yours?

So don't try to make out occult practitioners don't exist.

Why should I? I was one such. Of course they exist. Nothing satanic about it, though. That is all in your imagination.

It is there in plain sight. Epstein and his astonishing deep state network indulging in underage teenage sex, porn and orgies is really really not about some oversexed dude.

And nobody here is denying that. Everyone is simply pointing out that this breathless satanic crap is utter nonsense akin to the whole reds under the bed baloney. It's superstitious nonsense.

 

[abaddon]

So we are agreed.

You believe Epstein to have been a one-man band. I believe he was in a conspiracy.

Stop shovelling words into other's mouths. That is not what he said. Try reading with comprehension for a change.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Well, I for one have been convinced by OP that Epstein conquering the Baltic was justifiable because he was 'civilising' it, and we can't all be descended from Charlemagne even statistically speaking, because royal blood is magic.

 

[turingtest]

It is what we are talking about in this thread.

Yeah, that's... pretty weak. Somehow, though, I'm not surprised you weren't able to quote somebody actually saying what you need them to be saying. I guess if you need to be the only righteous person in the room, making sinners of everyone else is the easiest way to do it.

(You should just consider that a paraphrase of all the things you've said )

 

[Axxman300]

You are in denial if you cannot admit that despite many many years of procuring underage teenage girls, and likely running a blackmail racket, nobody has ever been brought to justice,...

No, nobody's confused. What we have here is a real live conspiracy with all the bells and whistles: Sex trafficking out in the open, high-profile political figures attending parties and taking money and going to his island, evidence of camera use in private spaces for possible blackmail use, and under these conditions a DoJ uncomfortably slow to act.

None of this is in dispute. The investigation is ongoing.

apart from Epstein, once in 2010 when he 'got off' with a 13-month sentence which gave him day release on his island and he never checked in once, with impunity, and then in July 2019 when NY took it out of Florida's hands, and in weeks we're told he topped himself, that there is some funny deep state stuff going on here.

And now we have the Deep State involved.

Epstein was hardly the first wealthy convict to get special treatment from the Feds. His treatment is what money buys in the US with powerful lawyers, and witnesses who often refuse to testify.

As for "The Deep State"? The FBI conducted an investigation into Esptein from 2006 to 2007 called Operation Leap Year which was never presented to a grand jury.

I'm not seeing Satanism here, I'm seeing Alan Dershowitz, I'm seeing what money and influence can do. Par for the course in the US.

No, two-bit maths teacher from blue-collar Brooklyn Jeffrey Epstein was not 'just a dirty old man with a lot of money'.

Yes he was but he was not a Satanist.

 

[Axxman300]

If a lowly SUN or DAILY MAIL reader understands what is meant by satanic goings on then I am not sure why people on a sceptics forum are unable to grasp it.

So you rant about the evil Satan-worshiping Jeffry Epstein but somehow The SUN gets a pass for 40 years of Page 3? (which is the only reason to subscribe to The SUN).

What does The Independent think of this Satanism theory?

 

[Axxman300]

Look, when Moses raged at his people for building a golden calf it was because they reverted back to the gods served in Egypt which they had just escaped from. Did you really expect Exodus to go off on a tangent as to the 'history of Ba'al in Canaan and the Levant and how the worship of same spread to the Middle Egyptian dynasty'?

Except that "The Devil" doesn't appear in the Bible until after the Babylonian Captivity. The serpent in the Garden of Eden is later interpreted as being the devil but that was not the intentions of the original authors of that Old Testament text. Moreover the point of the golden calf in Exodus was about the dangers of the Israelites backsliding into the same kind of culture and religious beliefs of the kingdom they'd just escaped from, and to which the Ten Commandments represented a marked evolutionary departure from Egypt, Rome, and the tribal religions of northern Europe at that time.

 

[bruto]

I would not entirely rule out some sort of conspiracy here, but I am guessing the conspiracy was one established and led by Epstein, and enabled by those who found his services useful, entertaining or lucrative. I think those who insist on finding hidden agencies and devils make the mistake of underestimating the ability of fairly ordinary people to be just plain evil, and the susceptibility of people to glib b.s. and promises of forbidden pleasures.

 

[Vixen]

You have declared such beliefs to be "satanic" and thus worthy of legal action. Do no attempt to pretend that you have not. Do not make me quote you very own words.

For an example of what?

Evidence? Why am I asking, I know you have none.

I am in the west. I don't care about your values because they are plainly messed up.

You are imagining all of this. I agree.

Not a problem if one does not adhere to a religion. It is your sexual hang-up and your alone. You have no beeswax examining what may or may not happen in other peoples underpants.

Baloney. Post divorce, I have no shortage of partners. If one is in the mood, one can get it. WITH CONSENTING ADULTS.

BS. Sex is a normal human drive. Why on earth you feel the need to pile endless guilt upon such a normal human activity is beyond me. Next you will be claiming that the missionary position is the only correct one.

FFS, Tomorrow, I am on a blind date. She is 50, same as me. Will sex be involved? One can hope. But I will play it however it lays. You somehow seem to think that would be "fornication". And a "sin" against some "god" that is entirely invented out of your own fevered imagination.

I expect a pleasant, civilised date, but if sex does happen, I will PM you all the gory detail if you wish just so you realise that sex is a normal human activity, indeed a human driving force. At any age.

And straight into wild conspiracy theories. Colour me surprised. Got evidence? Of course not.

Good luck on your blind date.

However, the principles of sexual hygiene (protecting children, preventing STDs, HIV, unwanted pregnancies) I am afraid protects our society from amoral anti-social, anti-establishment predators who would love to see the family and the nation's mores fall into chaos and disarray.

I've got nothing against free will, this is what true responsibility is about. However, when someone like Epstein and his calculated scheme comes along to try to bring down governments (POTUS, ex-POTUS) legal systems (Attorney Acosta/Dershowitz [named by teenage girl 'survivors' in depositions citing sex trafficking, rape and abuse] who secured a lenient plea deal for this depraved walking abomination, then I am afraid I would rather see all of the perps involved brought to justice and if that makes me a prig then so be it.

 

[Vixen]

That is the informal fallacy of an argument from ignorance. You cannot think of any other reason, therefore it MUST have been Moses.

Jews accept the 613 commandments (if observant). Didn't you know that? And which version of the so called ten commandments are you citing? There are three in the bible and none of them agree. Furthermore, jesus in the bible endorsed only five of those and added two more not in the ten. Which he plagiarised. Do you know which? I do.

Who cares about idols? Not me. Anyone can worship whatever they like. I don't care right up to the point when people like you attempt to impose your particular idol upon me or anyone else. At that point the imposer can foxtrot right oscar.

What do you mean by "fornicating" exactly? If extra-marital sex, then you are talking utter BS. And I speak from experience. If other, specify what you mean.

Plagiarised from elsewhere by the bible.
Is it? So you mean to suggest that before the wandering jews reached Mt. Sinai, none of them knew that murder was not a good thing? Really? In that case they would never have reached Sinai in the first place, being busy murdering each other.

Nope, it is one of those "tells" that jahweh was quite aware that there were other gods. But as the bible tells us jahweh was a jealous god. What else would he say?

Baal is not generic. Only you have tried to make him so under instruction from a priesthood with a vested interest in having you and everyone else accept such a proposition.

To me, Baal is just another in the thousands of false claimed gods. No more real that the pixies that make flowers grow.

False. I am all for fidelity in a relationship. But when such a relationship stops, one does not have to become a celibate forever.

Your prudishness is not impressive. Why should YOU care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom? What business is it of yours?

Why should I? I was one such. Of course they exist. Nothing satanic about it, though. That is all in your imagination.



And nobody here is denying that. Everyone is simply pointing out that this breathless satanic crap is utter nonsense akin to the whole reds under the bed baloney. It's superstitious nonsense.

In which way is it crap. I am curious to know why you are 'all for fidelity in a relationship'? Where does that come from as you don't believe in all this 'crap'. Don't tell us. Suddenly you believe in morals after all.

IMV the Jews have got it right. Stop worshipping statues and material objects. There is such a thing as good and evil otherwise our brains would not have evolved to be wired to such concepts. IMV every evolved individual is free to choose the path of good or the path of evil. The less evolved can carry on worshipping idols and know not why they are living in darkness.

 

[abaddon]

In which way is it crap. I am curious to know why you are 'all for fidelity in a relationship'? Where does that come from as you don't believe in all this 'crap'. Don't tell us. Suddenly you believe in morals after all.

What an idiotic statement. Of course I have morals. I just do not get them from a stupid magic book.

IMV the Jews have got it right. Stop worshipping statues and material objects.

I don't worship anything. Why would I?

There is such a thing as good and evil otherwise our brains would not have evolved to be wired to such concepts.

Who created evil?

IMV every evolved individual is free to choose the path of good or the path of evil.

Not so. Are you free to choose to murder somebody? Yes. Will there be consequences? Yes.

The less evolved can carry on worshipping idols and know not why they are living in darkness.

There is no such thing as a "less evolved" person. That is an utterly bovine statement. Go learn what evolution is.

 

[Vixen]

No, nobody's confused. What we have here is a real live conspiracy with all the bells and whistles: Sex trafficking out in the open, high-profile political figures attending parties and taking money and going to his island, evidence of camera use in private spaces for possible blackmail use, and under these conditions a DoJ uncomfortably slow to act.

None of this is in dispute. The investigation is ongoing.




And now we have the Deep State involved.

Epstein was hardly the first wealthy convict to get special treatment from the Feds. His treatment is what money buys in the US with powerful lawyers, and witnesses who often refuse to testify.

As for "The Deep State"? The FBI conducted an investigation into Esptein from 2006 to 2007 called Operation Leap Year which was never presented to a grand jury.

I'm not seeing Satanism here, I'm seeing Alan Dershowitz, I'm seeing what money and influence can do. Par for the course in the US.



Yes he was but he was not a Satanist.

Are you sure 'the investigation is ongoing'? Didn't the charges die with Epstein, together with the sealed evidence?

You are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you think the case is still open.

Sure there is a queue of victims who will get compensation from his estate.

That's finito. And of course, posters here will be glad about that as they no believe in conspiracy theory. He was just a randy old guy. Just like Jimmy Savile. Never had to face justice.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah, that's... pretty weak. Somehow, though, I'm not surprised you weren't able to quote somebody actually saying what you need them to be saying. I guess if you need to be the only righteous person in the room, making sinners of everyone else is the easiest way to do it.

(You should just consider that a paraphrase of all the things you've said )

Your projection.

All in your mind.

 

[Vixen]

I would not entirely rule out some sort of conspiracy here, but I am guessing the conspiracy was one established and led by Epstein, and enabled by those who found his services useful, entertaining or lucrative. I think those who insist on finding hidden agencies and devils make the mistake of underestimating the ability of fairly ordinary people to be just plain evil, and the susceptibility of people to glib b.s. and promises of forbidden pleasures.

I don't think it was established and led by Epstein. He was just an agent. Why do I think that? The Nobel Prize winning scientists he mixed with didn't think he was at all brilliant. They thought his platitudinous utterings dumb and revealed shallow knowledge.

As for financial acumen. There was only one known investor, Les Wexner. All the accountant types I know have portfolios of hundreds, even thousands of clients.

 

[bruto]

I don't think it was established and led by Epstein. He was just an agent. Why do I think that? The Nobel Prize winning scientists he mixed with didn't think he was at all brilliant. They thought his platitudinous utterings dumb and revealed shallow knowledge.

As for financial acumen. There was only one known investor, Les Wexner. All the accountant types I know have portfolios of hundreds, even thousands of clients.

Scientists saw him as dumb and shallow, or so they say now, and apparently went along with him because he had money and influence and they, in areas other than science, would appear to have been dumb and shallow in their own ways. Look how scientists and institutions are backpedalling now from their greedy feeding at the Sackler trough.

As for financial acumen, who knows? Maybe he was just lucky, or his skills were limited. Like the proverbial hedgehog, he did not have to know everything if he knew one thing well. And in the financial world you don't actually even have to know one thing well if you are lucky. Look at the financial crisis a few years ago. It was fueled largely by people whose overall ignorance was hidden by luck, unaware or unconcerned that they were essentially playing russian roulette.

The world is full of people who have skills and abilities in one area and are fools in others. I think you underestimate the degree to which a person with a certain form of cleverness can snow others, and the degree to which people, when they see a crowd, will simply join it. Now after the fact, after it's unfashionable to be associated with him, everyone says what a shallow fool Epstein was, but when it was fashionable, they were in the line.

 

[The Common Potato]

You just don't get it. Do you really believe these people did the posh person equivalent of hiring a motel room or massage parlour for bog standard common or garden variety prostitution?

Think about it it. What was the need for remote islands, ranches in semi-arrid desert and 42 roomed-mansions?

If I were an incredibly wealthy, evil bloke, and trying to impress teenage girls, there are two chat up options. Would you a) Like a quicky in the local Travel Lodge? b) Come on holiday to my private island in the Caribbean?

Shameless name drop alert: I did sit opposite and chatted with Michael Spencer - said to be worth about £1.15B - a few years ago at a mutual friend's birthday lunch, so that might be my 'in' to middle aged debauchery. And the local Premier Inn is two minutes' walk from my home.