Did Arafat have AIDS?

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99995037

maybe new scientist.

The World's No.1 Science & Technology News Service



Israel lays claim to Palestine's water

10:15 27 May 04

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.


Israel has drawn up a secret plan for a giant desalination plant to supply drinking water to the Palestinian territory on the West Bank. It hopes the project will diminish pressure for it to grant any future Palestinian state greater access to the region's scarce supplies of fresh water.

Under an agreement signed a decade ago as part of the Oslo accord, four-fifths of the West Bank's water is allocated to Israel, though the aquifers that supply it are largely replenished by water falling onto Palestinian territory.

The new plans call for seawater to be desalinated at Caesaria on the Mediterranean coast, and then pumped into the West Bank, where a network of pipes will deliver it to large towns and many of the 250 villages that currently rely on local springs and small wells for their water.

Israel, which wants the US to fund the project, would guarantee safe passage of the water across its territory in return for an agreement that Israel can continue to take the lion's share of the waters of the West Bank. These mainly comprise underground reserves such as the western aquifer, the region's largest, cleanest and most reliable water source.

For Israelis, agreement on the future joint management of this aquifer is a prerequisite for granting Palestine statehood.
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Cleopatra said:
I have read many thing regarding this issue. My problem is that the first stories appeared in jewish sites of the extreme right that although they have never been questioned I do not find them trustworthy. Although I know that one of the principles of critical thinking is to examine what somebody is claiming and not who is claiming it in this case I chose to ignore those rumors.

Last year though I read a couple of articles from serious palestinian sources that made indirect but specific accusations against the palestinian authority for embracing barbaric muslim superstitions that have to do with the prolongment of life.

According to the old muslim tradition/superstitio that was practiced in large scale by the Turks until the late 19thce men of power would stay always young if they slept with a young boy. The Ottomans apart from harems always had a young boy in their court and "used" it specifically for that. The kid wasn't tortured at all, it was well kept, it got education and its family enjoyed many privileges that's why many parents wished that their boys were chosen to become every Pasha's " little boy".

For those that don't know it, from all the Arabic countries Egypt is considered the most turkisized country( I mean the country that it was very much influence by the Ottomans who destroyed the Arabic civilization for good) to the point that Jordanians, Palestinians and especially the Lebanese have for an insult to call somebody " Egyptian" because it means a turkisized, second class Arab.

Another example. Arabic is a very difficult and diverse language. If you are an Arab who speaks egyptian Arabic there is no way for you to be accepted in the intellectual arabic communities of Europe ( I know about UK for sure) that they speak the lebanese and syrian version of the Arabic.

I take the opportunity to mention all these because of the comment that was made regarding Arafat's origin. Arafat was raised an Egyptian. Period. And if somebody believes that you can turn blood into water ( as we say here-- meaning that somebody cannot escape his cultural background ever) be my guest to show me how you drink it.

So, to return to the question, although I have seen many things regarding Arafat's relationship with boys I found very persuasive the reference to the muslim tradition. Shall we ever know? I doubt it but in those cases one chooses to believe what he/she wants.

In my opinion Arafat has done many worse things when he was allowing his wife to steal the money of the Palestinians, when he kept his people in the refugee camps for decades instead of encouraging them to build a life , when he was executing his comrades because they questioned him and left their bodies unburied for weeks hunging by the trees.
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So a rumor of unnamed palistinian authority figures practicing superstitions from the 1800s, connected to Arafat being raised in Egypt even though he is probably Palistinian, coupled with Egyptians not being considered True Arabs in London circles, and voila! Yassir Arafat is a pedophile!
 
Luke T. said:
So a rumor of unnamed palistinian authority figures practicing superstitions from the 1800s, connected to Arafat being raised in Egypt even though he is probably Palistinian, coupled with Egyptians not being considered True Arabs in London circles, and voila! Yassir Arafat is a pedophile!
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Arafat's pre-PLO (pre-1968 or so) are documented in Pacepa's book and several others including his birth, schooling and education in Egypt, his moving to Kuwait and opening an engineering business there and finally his recruitment by the USSR to set up the anti-Israeli, anti-American PLO and Fatah.

The Romanians are the ones alleging he was a homosexual pedophile and his vulnerability because of this (remember the time) made him an ideal candidate. He was recruited by Nasser who was the USSR's chief client in the region at the time.
 
"palestine water" googles

I was prompted to register with jref specifically in order to join the discussions here. The topics are fascinating and the conversations are invigorating, to say the least!

As an Israeli citizen, I hope to offer some unique insights...
========================

Regarding the water issue, it indeed is a subject of extensive review. In fact, a google search on "palestine water" reveals one million four hundred thousand results.

An authoritative report comes from the UNEP, and you can see that PDF file here:
http://www.ucc-water.org/palestine/Palestine.htm

From my own experience, driving around the West Bank on my way to visit friends, there are several places where the water just flows from the ground freely (aquifier overflow) and is not utilized by anyone.
Valuable water runs into the streets and has been doing so for who-knows-how-long at these spots!

I can imagine a water main breaking in the USA and it's left to gurgle for a hundred years!
 
Re: "palestine water" googles

webfusion said:
I was prompted to register with jref specifically in order to join the discussions here. The topics are fascinating and the conversations are invigorating, to say the least!

As an Israeli citizen, I hope to offer some unique insights...
========================

Regarding the water issue, it indeed is a subject of extensive review. In fact, a google search on "palestine water" reveals one million four hundred thousand results.

An authoritative report comes from the UNEP, and you can see that PDF file here:
http://www.ucc-water.org/palestine/Palestine.htm

From my own experience, driving around the West Bank on my way to visit friends, there are several places where the water just flows from the ground freely (aquifier overflow) and is not utilized by anyone.
Valuable water runs into the streets and has been doing so for who-knows-how-long at these spots!

I can imagine a water main breaking in the USA and it's left to gurgle for a hundred years!
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Welcome, webfusion!

It is great to have an Israeli johnny-on-the-spot on this forum.
 
in the interests of fairness

Thanks for the warm welcome, I will do my best to bring a perspective that is realistic and fair.

Two things -- first, I am an Israeli citizen, but am not "on the spot" currently. I'm in WashingtonDC attached to a major high-tech firm, on assignment from my Israeli employer.

Secondly, in the google search, I did not place "quotation marks" on the two words 'palestine water' so the boolean search provided 1,400,000 hits, with either water or palestine. If the exact phrase is searched, 980 hits result.

Still, that's a lot of websites presenting various reviews of the issue. Water resources are of great concern and extensive research has been done to see what kinds of solutions can be achieved. Israel is even negotiating with Turkey to bring water via pipeline. Once other alternatives are found, Israel will be only too happy to leave the underground reservoir alone for the Palestinians to maintain.

In that regard, the Palestinians have a lot of responsibilities in keeping the water fresh and pure. Serious problems of groundwater pollution by wastewater-borne chemicals or pathogenic microorganisms may result from improperly controlled wastewater recycling and reuse. This is particularly so in the highly permeable, pollution prone, recharge areas of the limestone/dolomite mountain aquifer which is the main transboundary water source shared by Israelis and Palestinians.

With a general lack of proper sewage and sanitation in PA towns and villages, this is a critical point. The Palestinians have to stop fouling-up their drinking water supply!

True story:
I was working on a kibbutz in the 1980's and the River Alexander was flowing along nearby. We would go down to the bank and have fun watching turtles & frogs there.

Today, no turtles, no frogs. The Palestinian town of Tulkarm upstream failed to implement a proper wastewater-system (despite repreated efforts by the Israelis to pay for and help install it) and then basically ruined the aquatic life.
 
Re: "palestine water" googles

webfusion said:
I was prompted to register with jref specifically in order to join the discussions here. The topics are fascinating and the conversations are invigorating, to say the least!

As an Israeli citizen, I hope to offer some unique insights...
========================

Regarding the water issue, it indeed is a subject of extensive review. In fact, a google search on "palestine water" reveals one million four hundred thousand results.

An authoritative report comes from the UNEP, and you can see that PDF file here:
http://www.ucc-water.org/palestine/Palestine.htm

From my own experience, driving around the West Bank on my way to visit friends, there are several places where the water just flows from the ground freely (aquifier overflow) and is not utilized by anyone.
Valuable water runs into the streets and has been doing so for who-knows-how-long at these spots!

I can imagine a water main breaking in the USA and it's left to gurgle for a hundred years!
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I think there has to be a distinction between a natural water flow that is left to be just that, and wasted water. For example, a river that runs to the sea is not wasted water.
 
Re: in the interests of fairness

webfusion said:

With a general lack of proper sewage and sanitation in PA towns and villages, this is a critical point. The Palestinians have to stop fouling-up their drinking water supply!

True story:
I was working on a kibbutz in the 1980's and the River Alexander was flowing along nearby. We would go down to the bank and have fun watching turtles & frogs there.

Today, no turtles, no frogs. The Palestinian town of Tulkarm upstream failed to implement a proper wastewater-system (despite repreated efforts by the Israelis to pay for and help install it) and then basically ruined the aquatic life.
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I think that all parties in the area have to concentrate more on the environment. The Yarkon River, for example, is another candidate for some remediation.

http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/990730/maccabi.shtml
 
Re: Re: in the interests of fairness

a_unique_person said:
I think that all parties in the area have to concentrate more on the environment. The Yarkon River, for example, is another candidate for some remediation.
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TRANSLATION: Israeli rivers are evil too. ;)
 
Re: Re: Re: in the interests of fairness

zenith-nadir said:
TRANSLATION: Israeli rivers are evil too. ;)
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LOL!

I have to admit I expected AUP to blame the kibbutz for the dirty river. The Palistinians upstream were merely using ancient biological warfare tactics to dislodge the invaders...
 
Israel examining possibility Arafat died of AIDS

PA leader’s official cause of death yet to be released. Reason for speculation - report Arafat had problems in his blood count, which is characteristic of disease.

Amir Rapoport and Or Heler


The defense establishment has been examining the possibility that PA Chairman Yasser Arafat had died of AIDS.


Arafat’s official cause of death has yet to be released by the Percy Hospital in Paris, where Arafat had been treated. His doctors have ruled out the possibility he had died of leukemia or any other type of cancer.

In the past several days, rumors have begun circulating, especially on the Internet, that the Palestinian leader died of AIDS. The reason for the speculation was the report that Arafat had problems in his blood count, which is one characteristic of the disease.

Israel’s intelligence community has been trying to determine Arafat’s cause of death, by discussing the subject with medical experts and reviewing intelligence information. According to the experts, AIDS could certainly be one of the options.

Meanwhile, France's foreign minister stated Tuesday that his country has no plans to publish Yasser Arafat's medical records and will leave the decision about what to do with them up to his family.

Michel Barnier's remarks came after Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei (Abu Ala) said that he had formally asked that France publish Arafat's medical records.
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http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=11685


French law does not obligate doctor's to place a cause of death on death certificates. This certificate has already been falsified by the French in that reports indicate his place of birth was listed as Jersusalem, in a bid to be buried there, something which was rapidly nixed by Israel.

It is becoming more and more obvious that the only reasons anyone has not to release Arafat's cause of death is because it is AIDS. If it were anything else there would be no problem.
 
News Headline

It probably would have been better to let this thread die a natural death, but the Palestinain Authority has just announced that they are going to seek an official commission of inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the Chairman's demise.

FWIW.
 
yup. It is not going to die a natural death until the world is convinced Arafat did.

excerpt

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=622877&section=news



Palestinians to probe Arafat's death
Wed 17 November, 2004 18:44



By Elizabeth Pineau
Reuters

PARIS (Reuters) - France is insisting that Yasser Arafat was not poisoned, but Palestinian leaders still concerned about the mystery cause of his death say they will send a delegation to Paris to seek more details.

The 75-year-old leader died in a military hospital outside Paris last week, but doctors have refused to release his medical records, citing strict French confidentiality laws.

Only Arafat's next-of-kin can publish his medical records, something his widow Suha has so far declined to do.

The Le Monde newspaper fuelled the controversy by quoting doctors on Wednesday as saying Arafat, a longtime symbol of Palestinian nationalism, had succumbed to an unusual blood disease and a liver problem.

Palestinian leaders have dismissed speculation that Arafat was poisoned by Israel, which has denied any role in the death of its long-time enemy. No evidence has been provided to back the allegation of poisoning.

"The conditions surrounding the death of President Yasser Arafat raises questions," said Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie's office in a statement in the West Bank city of Ramallah.
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a_unique_person said:
http://www.mediareviewnet.com/Denying Water.htm
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It's interesting that all of this happened in the 1967-68 time frame. Hmmmmm.....what else happened in 1967??? Oh, I don't know.......MAYBE THE ARABS STARTED A WAR? Nah, that couldn't be it!

Tip: If you don't want your water shut off by your neighbor, then don't attack your neighbor! Is that really so hard for you to grasp?
 
Re: News Headline

webfusion said:
It probably would have been better to let this thread die a natural death, but the Palestinain Authority has just announced that they are going to seek an official commission of inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the Chairman's demise.

FWIW.
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I bet the inquiry won't include sending tissue samples to an independent lab and full public disclosure of the results.
 
Luke T. said:
So a rumor of unnamed palistinian authority figures practicing superstitions from the 1800s, connected to Arafat being raised in Egypt even though he is probably Palistinian, coupled with Egyptians not being considered True Arabs in London circles, and voila! Yassir Arafat is a pedophile!
Click to expand...

First of all I never claimed that Arafat was ( not IS, he is dead) a pheadophile, second when I was replying to your question I knew that reading comprehension was not your strongest point( and I didn't reply for your sake anyway) but what so ever I invite you to give it another try and read again what I wrote.Of course you won't get it but I am not replying to you anyway.

Nice to see that you finally got interested in the Affairs of Middle East although this is a topic for individuals with advanced skills in critical thinking.

Why don't you stick on the topic of the Community Forum instead ?

Always enchanted to chat with a romantic intellectual like you.

C.
 
Every single allegation regarding Arafat's sexual orientation sources back to the book Red Horizon by the former head of the Romanian KGB. The book was really about the Ceacesu's but the Arafat information appears as a sidebar piece of information. In theory this man would have no reason or motive to lie about this intelligence but then again who knows?

In a further development regarding Arafat's cause of death, it seems his nephew has received a comittment to obtain his medical records. The following unsigned story released thruough he AP is now appearing:

Arafat's nephew goes to Paris to pick up medical report

By Associated Press November 18, 2004

Yasser Arafat's nephew, Nasser al-Kidwa, heads to Paris Friday to obtain the medical records related to the Palestinian Authority chairman's death.

Until now, the French doctors who treated Arafat in his last days have declined to say what caused his death last week, citing privacy laws. But French authorities said Thursday they would release Arafat's medical records to al-Kidwa, the Palestinian representative to the United Nations.

"The full medical report of President Arafat is a historical document for the Palestinian people," said Hassan Abu Libdeh, the Palestinian cabinet
secretary.

"We will get the report and the Palestinian Authority will take the necessary decisions including informing the Palestinian people about the full details of the report," he said.

French Defense Ministry spokesman Jean-Francois Bureau said that Arafat's widow, Suha, also intends to formally request his medical dossier. But she proved unwilling during his treatment in France to release much information about his ailments.

Al-Kidwa, on the other hand, has publicly called for an investigation into Arafat's death.

Officials in Paris have insisted that French law prevents them from making Arafat's medical records public, and they have refused to announce the cause of his death in a Paris-area military hospital on November 11.

The lack of information on the cause of Arafat's death has proved fertile ground for widespread rumors in the Arab world that Israel poisoned Arafat, despite official French and Palestinian denials. It also left the quality of care that Arafat received in France open to question and charges that perhaps not everything was done to save him.

The mystery and rumors also risk complicating life for Arafat's successors as they take over the reins of power. That, too, goes against France's wishes, which says it wants a smooth transition for the Palestinian Authority.

Because al-Kidwa is both Arafat's nephew and the Palestinian representative to the United Nations, giving him the records offers France a way out, allowing it to abide by medical privacy laws that restrict information to family members while also responding to the PA's efforts to determine the cause of Arafat's death.

Giving al-Kidwa the medical records would also put the onus on him to explain the cause of death.

Gen. Christian Estripeau, a spokesman for the French military's health wing, said in a telephone interview that al-Kidwa could have access to Arafat's medical records.

"His case has already been studied. I think that if he makes a demand it would be accepted," said Estripeau. As the spokesman for the hospital where Arafat was treated, Estripeau was the first French official to announce on November 11 that Arafat had died after two weeks of treatment at the Percy Military Training Hospital southwest of Paris.

Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia has ordered an inquiry into the cause of Arafat's death. The inquiry will take testimony from Palestinian and other Arab doctors, Palestinian officials said.


http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/4417.htm
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