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Destiny and Free will

wollery said:
Yes!

How about you?
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And ... have you read those links and understood them... because they prove your assertions arrantly wrong here and here.

Your very own links ... if you read them and understand them ... prove your posts wrong.

If you cannot see that then I suggest you read your posts again... then read my posts slowly and carefully and think about them long and hard.

Also compare them to what your own citations above say.

If you still cannot see how you are wrong then... try and try again... it will come to you eventually.

Hint: read your own citations carefully and think about what they say carefully.
 
Leumas said:
And ... have you read those links and understood them... because they prove your assertions arrantly wrong here and here.

Your very own links ... if you read them and understand them ... prove your posts wrong.

If you cannot see that then I suggest you read your posts again... then read my posts slowly and carefully and think about them long and hard.

Also compare them to what your own citations above say.

If you still cannot see how you are wrong then... try and try again... it will come to you eventually.

Hint: read your own citations carefully and think about what they say carefully.
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How about pointing out any part of them that says that free will includes the ability to choose a course of action that is not possible for that individual.
 
Leumas said:
Go read my post again... try to do it slowly and carefully and think about what it says ... if you cannot get it then keep trying... it will come to you eventually.
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Nope. All I see is that you are associating free will with bashing women or debilitating illnesses.
 
wollery said:
How about pointing out any part of them that says that free will includes the ability to choose a course of action that is not possible for that individual.
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Ok... I will help you.... from this citation that you cited
Free will is the capacity of agents to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded​

Do you think having spina bifida is an impediment or not???
 
Leumas said:
Ok... I will help you.... from this citation that you cited
Free will is the capacity of agents to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded​

Do you think having spina bifida is an impediment or not???
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And you question my ability with English?!?!? :jaw-dropp
 
psionl0 said:
ftfy.
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That is why you are a theist and I am an atheist... you cannot fathom how being disabled is an impediment... all because you want to absolve your deadbeat sky daddy of his sadistic imbecilic design.
 
wollery said:
Leumas said:
Ok... I will help you.... from this citation that you cited
Free will is the capacity of agents to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded​

Do you think having spina bifida is an impediment or not???
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And you question my ability with English?!?!? :jaw-dropp
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Evidently you have not understood the question or have not read it.

Do you think having spina bifida is an impediment or not???
 
Leumas said:
Evidently you have not understood the question or have not read it.

Do you think having spina bifida is an impediment or not???
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Yes, it is.

Just as not having eagle wings is an impediment to my ability to soar over the mountains and plains hunting for rabbit.

What part of “possible” was confusing you?
 
wollery said:
Yes, it is.

Just as not having eagle wings is an impediment to my ability to soar over the mountains and plains hunting for rabbit.

What part of “possible” was confusing you?
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The above statement is an abject turpitude... 🤮

However I am going to give you another chance...

errr.... nope I cannot see any point in that... 🤮
 
Leumas said:
The above statement is an abject turpitude... [emoji2961]

However I am going to give you another chance...

errr.... nope I cannot see any point in that... [emoji2961]
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Are you admitting that you don’t understand the importance of the word “possible” in the definition?

Your use of the word “turpitude” suggests that you believe I’m intentionally misrepresenting my position. Or perhaps that you don’t understand the use of hyperbole as a rhetorical device.
 
Leumas said:
The above is abject ad hominem strawman calumny and perfidy... thanks for that... I expected no less.
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No, I think it's rather insightful. I can easily imagine how the conversation would go.

"You can't really be happy in such a terrible world."

"But I am."

"Here are some pictures of deformed children. Are you still happy?"

"Of course."

"You're happy about children being deformed! Such turpy turpy turpitude. You're a turpy turp. Turpalicious turpy turp turp. Did I mention turpitude? Perfidious."
 
Leumas said:
This is how reality works... whether you can perceive it or not ... it still remains reality... just because you made up your own version does not make it right.... and if you try again you might eventually perceive the reality you have been misperceiving.
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Speaking of reality, we all must live in it. All of our choices are constrained by various parts of reality. Such reality-based constraints are indeed a limit on the number of available choices, but not on which of the realistically available choices we can make.

If I need to get to Boston, I can’t choose to fly there on my own wings. If I don’t have money for a plane ticket, I can’t choose to fly there at all. If I don’t have a car, I can’t choose to drive it there. Yet I still have choices to make. Bus? Car rental? Hitchhike? Ask a friend? Borrow money? Decide not to go? Those are the choices available and which one I choose is a free choice.

Free will in no way implies unlimited choice.

I do wonder if you believe in free will at all, even divorced from a religious context. Myself, I do believe that we have free choice of the realistically available choices we are presented with. But I don’t dismiss the possibility that this is an illusion and that all my choices are … not so much pre-determined… but it isn’t possible for me to choose freely because a causal chain of events from the moment the universe big-banged itself into existence constrains my choices to only one in any given situation.
 
xjx388 said:
I do wonder if you believe in free will at all, even divorced from a religious context. Myself, I do believe that we have free choice of the realistically available choices we are presented with. But I don’t dismiss the possibility that this is an illusion and that all my choices are … not so much pre-determined… but it isn’t possible for me to choose freely because a causal chain of events from the moment the universe big-banged itself into existence constrains my choices to only one in any given situation.
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Yes, the question "does free will exist?" has no definitive answer. If the universe is deterministic then free will (and consciousness) is an illusion otherwise there may be some room for independent thought.

However, for the purpose of this thread, we are just assuming that every human is freely able to choose between the options presented to them without being controlled by any external factors.
 
psionl0 said:
However, for the purpose of this thread, we are just assuming that every human is freely able to choose between the options presented to them without being controlled by any external factors.
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Like your sky daddy making some humans unable to choose some of the options presented because of the external factor of your sky daddy making some humans impeded from choosing some of those options.
 
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xjx388 said:
I do wonder if you believe in free will at all, even divorced from a religious context.
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Nope... there is no free will.


xjx388 said:
Free will in no way implies unlimited choice.
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Yes... it does not... I never said that... it is the lack of reading comprehension by some or even deliberate misrepresentation that said that.

However... if one's species is able to do certain things ... and then certain individuals of that species are IMPEDED from doing what the rest of their species can do.. then they are not able to choose freely like the rest of their species can choose.... because they are impeded.

Being impeded to choose options that one's species can and do choose means one is impeded from choosing what one could have chosen.... and that means one is not free to choose what the rest of one's species can and do choose.

And if this impediment is caused by an external factor ... such as an incompetent imbecilic sadistic designer who failed in designing the individual the same way as the rest of his species.... then

psionl0 said:
... [NOT] every human is freely able to choose between the options presented to them without being controlled by any external factors.
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