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Destiny and Free will

Emre_1974tr said:
The Quran clearly tells the truth.
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The Quran and the bible are at odds with each other so at most, only one of them tells the truth.

I would need more than somebody on the internet with a unique POV before I believed that the Quran was a truthful document.
 
psionl0 said:
The Quran and the bible are at odds with each other so at most, only one of them tells the truth.

I would need more than somebody on the internet with a unique POV before I believed that the Quran was a truthful document.
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Surely you don't expect Emre to show evidence and use reason?

A truly novel idea to expect this from the faithful. Quotes from scripture and statements drawn from faith alone, are all you can expect from the faithful.
 
The Qu'ran is poorly written fanfiction of the Bible, which itself is poorly written fanfiction of the Torah.

Of course, none of these books have the slightest evidence that the overarching story that pins them is true. The Quran gets multiple things hilariously wrong about the nature of the universe.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
The Qu'ran is poorly written fanfiction of the Bible, which itself is poorly written fanfiction of the Torah.

Of course, none of these books have the slightest evidence that the overarching story that pins them is true. The Quran gets multiple things hilariously wrong about the nature of the universe.
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To be fair, the get some things right? The Babylonian exile seems to have happened, the Roman Empire probably existed though its reference in the bible makes me wonder.
 
Oh yes, but only in the same way that say, Harry Potter also gets things right because the UK exists, or Dracula gets things right because Whitby is a seaside town.
 
ahhell said:
To be fair, the get some things right? The Babylonian exile seems to have happened, the Roman Empire probably existed though its reference in the bible makes me wonder.
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I would say that, on balance, both the Quran and the Bible get far more wrong than they get right.
In addition, the amount of moral guidance in the Quran is miniscule, and far outweighed by all the graphic descriptions of what happens to those who disobey Allah, injunctions to alternately shun or kill unbelievers, and statements about the inferiority of women as compared with men.
I have read it twice, and it is a truly horrible book.
 
Again:

Everyone is free to believe what they wish, according to Quran. This is the goal of the test world. To confront yourself.

Quran only allows a war of defense.

If you read the full of the verses, you will always see the struggle with the attackers in the defense battle.

Example;

2:190 Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.

2:191 Fight them wherever you meet them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. Do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then fight them. Thus is the reward of those who do not appreciate.

2:192 If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

2:193 Fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is God's. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.

***********

Here again, He says, fight with the attackers.

But if you pull out a single verse. You make it look like saying the opposite.

And look at:

49:9 And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with the command of God. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable.

As you can see saying, if the attackers are Muslims, stop them too.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Quran only allows a war of defense.
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And yet:
Timur (Tamerlane).
Mahmoud of Ghazni.
The Ottoman Empire.
The Ikhwan.
The Iran/Iraq War.
ISIS attacks on Shias.
Were these defensive wars? I think not. History is littered with examples of Muslims waging wars of aggression- mostly against each other.

The thing about defence is that you can define it to mean pretty much anything you want it to mean.
This is much like Takfiri Doctrine, which allows jihadists to define anyone who does not share their fundamentalist version of Islam as a non-Muslim, who can then legitimately be killed.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Again:

Everyone is free to believe what they wish, according to Quran. This is the goal of the test world. To confront yourself.

Quran only allows a war of defense.

If you read the full of the verses, you will always see the struggle with the attackers in the defense battle.

Example;

2:190 Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.

2:191 Fight them wherever you meet them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. Do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then fight them. Thus is the reward of those who do not appreciate.

2:192 If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

2:193 Fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is God's. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.

***********

Here again, He says, fight with the attackers.

But if you pull out a single verse. You make it look like saying the opposite.

And look at:

49:9 And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with the command of God. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable.

As you can see saying, if the attackers are Muslims, stop them too.
Click to expand...

Who is saying this? Mohammed or Allah? Even the Quran admits Mohammed is a sinner.
 
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Holy Quran
NECM

19.Have ye seen Lat. and ´Uzza

20.And another, the third , Manat?

21.Are yours the males and His the females?


22.Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

23.These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

.....

The Quran says Lat, Uzza and Menat are fake gods that people make up.

Just like saying the trinity is a fake.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Holy Quran
NECM



The Quran says Lat, Uzza and Menat are fake gods that people make up.

Just like saying the trinity is a fake.
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But your Quran says Jesus Christ is a divine spirit; That means the Christ is more than just a prophet.
 
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What is the difference between them and Allah Emre?

There's no evidence for any of it afterall.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Spirit= revelation:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3779.msg18107#msg18107
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God said, "O Jesus son of Mary, recall My blessings upon you and your mother that I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you spoke to the people in the cradle and in old age; and I taught you the book and the wisdom, and the Torah, and the Injeel; and you would create from clay the shape of a bird, then blow into it and it becomes a bird by My leave; and you heal the blind and the leper by My leave; and you brought out the dead by My leave. I have restrained the Children of Israel from you, that you came to them with proofs; but those who rejected amongst them said, "This is an obvious magic!" (5:110)

In this one paragraph I see a trinity; God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. How is that possible the Quran mentions all 3 while you claim the trinity in the Bible is a false, paganistic fraud.

(1). Jesus the Messiah is Word and Spirit of God
Every prophet has a relation to the Word of God. Note that God would have hidden forever, when there were no prophets and there was no relation of the prophets with the Word of God. The prophets gave guidance to mankind. Therefore we can conclude:
(2). The Word of God is God.
Now we may conclude from (1) and (2):
(3). Jesus Christ is God
When you deny this, then you would not understand the nature of God. When Jesus Christ is outside God, then he is without the Word and Spirit of God. When you want to deny that Jesus Christ is God, you have to accept that the Word and Spirit are split off from God. But then you (as a Muslim) have made associates to God! This is a contradiction.
Conclusion
No one else in the Quran has the titles "Word of God" and "Spirit of God" in the Quran. Therefore it is possible to conclude that Jesus the Messiah is God.
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
Again:

Everyone is free to believe what they wish, according to Quran. This is the goal of the test world. To confront yourself.

Quran only allows a war of defense.

If you read the full of the verses, you will always see the struggle with the attackers in the defense battle.

Example;

2:190 Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.

2:191 Fight them wherever you meet them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. Do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then fight them. Thus is the reward of those who do not appreciate.

2:192 If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

2:193 Fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is God's. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.

***********

Here again, He says, fight with the attackers.

But if you pull out a single verse. You make it look like saying the opposite.

And look at:

49:9 And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with the command of God. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable.

As you can see saying, if the attackers are Muslims, stop them too.
Click to expand...

Only a war mongering bandit would tell people to fight and kill unbelievers.

A true prophet of God would speak like Jesus, and tell us to love our enemies.
 
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