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Destiny and Free will

Emre_1974tr said:
I already said that above. All polytheists think they are monotheists with this pantheistic trap.

Hindus, New Age believers and all other pagans are in the same trap. They believe in many Gods as a reflection of the One God, they are in shirk. Just like Christians, they have fallen into the same trap of Satan.

Study all the polytheistic pagan religions around the world. With one or two exception, they all have the same pagan structure within a pantheistic philosophy.

Polytheism, pantheism, holy men, priests, communism, asceticism, poverty, evolution, reincarnation, spirit world, dualism and other same pagan beliefs...

Jesus is in reality an Islamic prophet, a Muslim. Just like all other prophets and messengers. But after he left this world, the Islamic religion he brought was degenerated and immediately blended with pagan elements. It was called Christianity. So Christianity today is a hybrid doctrine, half Islamic and half Spiritist. The belief in the Trinity is completely pagan/polytheistic. Like Hinduism or Spiritualism.

Hindus "333 in 1"

Christians "3 in 1".

Pantheists "everything in 1"

New Agers "we are in 1"

This is paganism.
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You know Emre, I care about you and I believe this is well explained here. Nabeel brings up an exact point in the Bible that once made me stop and question about the plural reference in Genesis.

https://youtu.be/8Ib2ffq3-NA
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
All pagans are in the same trap. Christians, Hindus and others, all of them worship many gods as a reflection of the one God, but they think they are monotheists. In reality they are polytheists in the mire of polytheism.
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You're repeating yourself in the same words. A sure sign of a closed mind.
 
Thermal said:
You're repeating yourself in the same words. A sure sign of a closed mind.
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On the contrary. I'm trying to open your closed mind. You're blind to the truth.

You try to repeat your pagan beliefs like robots even though I have made such clear explanations.
 
DetectedMotion said:
You know Emre, I care about you and I believe this is well explained here.
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I know all your polytheistic doctrines very deeply, don't worry.

But you don't know the truth. Almost all polytheistic religions have the same trap, that the demons are making you adopt the lie that there are multiple reflections of one God.

Hindus also think that they believe in one God, pantheists also, you Christians also. You have been made to believe that the one God is manifested in different ways. From Indian religions to Far Eastern religions, they all have the same fallacy. People who worship idols actually believe in one God. All idols are manifestations or parts of the original God in paganism. Hindus or other idol worshippers say the same thing. So they have exactly the same belief as the lie you are being fed.

Satan cannot make people polytheists directly, for the most part. Because there is true knowledge/revelation in the genes of human beings and people innately know that there is only one God. That's why Satan insidiously makes people polytheistic. He says that the one God manifests in different ways. And he deceives you pagans mostly in this way. Hindus, Native Americans, Asian pagans, new age believers, Christians, you think you believe in one God, but in reality you are polytheists. You have associated partners with Allah, so you are in shirk.

Hindus "333 in 1"

Christians "3 in 1".

Pantheists "everything in 1"

New Agers "we are in 1"

This is paganism.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
I know all your polytheistic doctrines very deeply, don't worry.

But you don't know the truth. Almost all polytheistic religions have the same trap, that the demons are making you adopt the lie that there are multiple reflections of one God.

Hindus also think that they believe in one God, pantheists also, you Christians also. You have been made to believe that the one God is manifested in different ways. From Indian religions to Far Eastern religions, they all have the same fallacy. People who worship idols actually believe in one God. All idols are manifestations or parts of the original God in paganism. Hindus or other idol worshippers say the same thing. So they have exactly the same belief as the lie you are being fed.

Satan cannot make people polytheists directly, for the most part. Because there is true knowledge/revelation in the genes of human beings and people innately know that there is only one God. That's why Satan insidiously makes people polytheistic. He says that the one God manifests in different ways. And he deceives you pagans mostly in this way. Hindus, Native Americans, Asian pagans, new age believers, Christians, you think you believe in one God, but in reality you are polytheists. You have associated partners with Allah, so you are in shirk.

Hindus "333 in 1"

Christians "3 in 1".

Pantheists "everything in 1"

New Agers "we are in 1"

This is paganism.
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So explain to me in Genesis1:1 ;Who's spirit was hovering over the waters? Wouldn't that be God's Holy Spirit? That is what it says; Are you denying this?
 
Emre, you believe in Satan. How is he not a God?

That makes you at least a dualist. Do you believe in angels? More deities! So you're a polytheism! And jinns? Polytheism in spades!

Although believers try to deny it, genuine monotheism appears not to exist -- certainly its hard to find.

An anthropological view of religion, i.e., a neutral, objective examination of people's beliefs in the supernatural, leads to a pretty obvious conclusion: monotheism is a weak, starved, unsatisfying basis for a cult, and human nature can never support it for long.

There. Can you understand that?
 
DetectedMotion said:
So explain to me in Genesis1:1 ;Who's spirit was hovering over the waters? Wouldn't that be God's Holy Spirit? That is what it says; Are you denying this?
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First of all, you must also deny the human written Bible. It is a book of hadith. These are not the books given to Moses or Jesus.

In Bursa, the city where I was born and raised, your hadith books have been identified (in the Iznik district), which ones are fabricated and which ones are religious sources, from your clerics. But, in reality, like the books of Barnabas and Enoch, Matthew or John were nothing but books of hadith. All of them are non-religious. The false Torah is likewise a humanly written book of hadith. It has no connection with the true Torah.

As for the Holy Spirit, he is a creature created out of nothing, just like humans or jinns or angels. It is completely separate from God, just like everything else that is created. The Qur'anic verses also talk about the Floor of God. It is the name of the Hereafter Universe. Because of its name, one might think that it is something Godlike, but it is not. It is just the name of a place created out of nothing. Expressions like "messenger of Allah" are like that.
 
sackett said:
Emre, you believe in Satan. ?
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No, you are talking about the erroneous belief in Satan in Christianity. According to Islam, the devil or jinn are servants just like human beings. They have nothing divine about them. In fact, there is nothing Godlike about any creature. They are all created out of nothing, that is, completely separate from God. That is why shirk is the greatest sin.

Jinn and angels are material beings just like humans. They just have different physical characteristics from us humans. For example, they can be invisible, have advanced telepathic abilities, etc...

Satan is the adjective name given to the evil of jinn and humans. There are good jinn too, and jinn are tested just like humans. So the picture described in the Quran is very different from the one you have adopted.

Iblis/Devil is the special name of the famous evil jinn. You know, the one that is the subject of horror movies.

Jinn and angels are both material beings subject to the laws of physics. There is nothing supernatural about any of them, but angels can travel to other universes. For example, to the Hereafter Universe called the Lord's Floor. But these other universes also have their own laws of physics.
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
First of all, you must also deny the human written Bible. It is a book of hadith. These are not the books given to Moses or Jesus... snip
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You are not supposed to reject the Gospels according to your book. Why are you rejecting it? Simply rejecting the Gospel because it is written by humans is denying the Holy Spirit; The Holy Spirit is of God just as Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God: Thereby God is at the top of this Hierarchy, but the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ are given power by his authority.
Whereby God has given the Holy Spirit the power of his word and the Word
was inspired to the Apostles by the Holy Spirit. These are the Gospels you're rejecting,
 
DetectedMotion said:
You are not supposed to reject the Gospels according to your book.,
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According to the Koran, Jesus was given only one book. It is called Injeel.

The rumors that people wrote later on are not this holy book. There are many made-up gospels written by people. Your clerics have accepted four of them as authentic and the others have been declared non-religious. But in reality they are all man-made hadith books. They are just like Bukhari or Tirmizi. Or they are non-religious like the books of Barnabas or Enoch.

Quran saying The elites always kept the books from you.

Quran 6:91 They did not value God as He deserves to be valued, for they said, "God has never sent down anything to any human being." Say, "Who then has sent down the book which Moses had come with, a light and guidance for the people? You treat it just as scrolls of paper; you show some of it and conceal much, though you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew." Say, "God has." Then leave them playing in their folly.

Matthew Mark or Yuhanna always wrote hadith books.


God's word hasn't changed. Your priests have adopted fake books. They gave you the hadith books as the Bible and deceived you.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Quran saying The elites always kept the books from you.

Quran 6:91 They did not value God as He deserves to be valued, for they said, "God has never sent down anything to any human being." Say, "Who then has sent down the book which Moses had come with, a light and guidance for the people? You treat it just as scrolls of paper; you show some of it and conceal much, though you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew." Say, "God has." Then leave them playing in their folly.
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From the Quran 3:3

It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur’an) to you (Muhammad SAW) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).
 
DetectedMotion said:
From the Quran 3:3

It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur’an) to you (Muhammad SAW) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).
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The Qur'an says that it confirms the Book of Abraham and all the books that preceded it, and that there are good examples in these books. But these books are not on the market.

The Quran confirms all previous holy books.

But none of these books are available anymore.

That is why the holy Qur'an repeatedly states that the Qur'an is now the only source of religion.

In fact, hadith books like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John are non-religious narrations. Like Bukhari and others...
 
Emre_1974tr said:
That is why the holy Qur'an repeatedly states that the Qur'an is now the only source of religion.

.
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The Qur'an may state it is the only source of religion, but that doesn't mean it's true.

Muslims and Christians agree that God sent the Injeel to humans. If He allowed man to change His own word, would that not imply that man is stronger than God?

Looking to the Injeel itself, we find that Jesus said in Mark 13:31, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.” The Injeel also makes its own origin very clear in 2 Peter 1:20-21, “First of all, you should know this: No prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the will of man; instead, men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

If the Injeel is truly the word of God sent to humans, God is able to preserve it.
 
I answered before:

Emre_1974tr said:
According to the Koran, Jesus was given only one book. It is called Injeel.

Quran saying The elites always kept the books from you.

Quran 6:91 They did not value God as He deserves to be valued, for they said, "God has never sent down anything to any human being." Say, "Who then has sent down the book which Moses had come with, a light and guidance for the people? You treat it just as scrolls of paper; you show some of it and conceal much, though you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew." Say, "God has." Then leave them playing in their folly.

Matthew Mark or Yuhanna always wrote hadith books.


God's word hasn't changed. Your priests have adopted fake books. They gave you the hadith books as the Bible and deceived you.
Click to expand...
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Quran saying The elites always kept the books from you.

God's word hasn't changed. Your priests have adopted fake books. They gave you the hadith books as the Bible and deceived you.
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Now the Quran tells Muhammad/ readers of the Quran to ask the People of the Book [the Bible] to affirm its contents, such as its accounts of events pertaining to Noah, Moses and Pharaoh, etc (Surah 10:71 - 10:95). It does this because the People of the Book have the original book in which these events were recorded.
Surah 10:94-95. “If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, THEN ASK THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN READING THE BOOK FROM BEFORE THEE: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losboom".

The Quran also implies in the following passages that the Bible has NOT been corrupted.

Sura 7:156-157. ˹They are˺ the ones who follow the Messenger [Muhammad], the unlettered Prophet, WHOSE DESCRIPTION THEY FIND IN THEIR TORAH AND GOSPEL.
If the Bible had been corrupted when this verse was "revealed," then why would Allah state that it can be relied upon as prophesying Muhammad's "prophethood"? Obviously, in the mind of whoever wrote this verse, the Bible had not been corrupted when they wrote it; also, the Bible that existed then (the manuscripts) exists now, which means that the Bible has still not been corrupted.

Surah 5:46-47. Then in the footsteps of the prophets, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah revealed before him. And We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light and confirming what was revealed in the Torah—a guide and a lesson to the God-fearing. SO LET THE PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HAS REVEALED IN IT. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the rebellious.

This passage speaks in present tense, which means that it is referring to the Christians of the time in which it was "revealed." Once again, if the Bible had been corrupted at that time, then commanding that Christians judge according to what Allah had supposedly revealed in the Gospel would not make sense.

The Quran also states that both the Jews and Christians had the wrong opinions about each other and that they should not have had such opinions since they both had "the book"; in other words, the Quran states that since each group had "the book," they should have had the right opinion about each other. This passage does not make sense if "the book" had been corrupted during the time that the Quran was "revealed."

Sura 2:113. "The Jews say, The Christians are not (founded) upon anything.' And the Christians say,The Jews are not (founded) upon anything.' And yet THEY READ THE BOOK."

As for the Gospels, consider the words of the following Muslim scholars:

"Ibn Mazar and Ibn Hatim state, in the commentary known as the Tafsir Durr-I-Mansur, that they have it on the authority of Ibn Muniyah, that the Taurat (i.e. the books of Moses), and the Injil (i.e. the Gospels), are in the same state of purity in which they were sent down from heaven, and that no alterations had been made in them, but that the Jews were wont to deceive the people by unsound arguments, and by wresting the sense of Scripture... Shah Waliyu Illah, in his commentary, the Fauzull-Kabir, and also Ibn `Abbas, support the same view." (T. P. Hughes, p. 62)

"Ibn Kathir in his book Al-Bidaya wa al-Nihaya quotes Muhammad saying about the Jews and Christians: 'David died in the midst of his friends. They were not led astray, nor changed [their books]. The Friends of Christ stayed in His ordinances and guidance for two hundred years' (proved by Ibn Hibban). It is well-known that we have copies of the New Testament that go back to the fourth century A.D. These are in harmony with the books as they are today." (True Guidance, p. 179)
 
DetectedMotion said:
Now the Quran tells Muhammad/ readers of the Quran to ask t)
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No, leave the words of those people. Just look at what the Quran says.

And if you look at the words of Muslim clerics, ninety-nine percent of them say to stay away from the false Bible.

As for the verses you gave, one of them is talking about the time of Prophet Jesus, when the true Torah was widespread (By the way, Jesus' real name is Joshua and he is mentioned in your false Torah. Jesus is the nephew of Moses and Aaron and he lived much earlier than you think).

In the other verses you gave, it talks about Christians and Jews staying away from their books. As I said, your elites are hiding the true books and have delivered very few pages of them to you. On the other hand, they have deceived you by passing off man-made hadith books like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as Injeel. Like the books of Enoch or the books of Barnabas, these are all man-written and non-religious books.

So the holy books have not changed. You don't have holy books in your hands now. This is what is explained in detail in the verses. In the past, only a few people had them. Now this elite has also diminished. Many verses also tell us how the Jews wrote such fabricated books.

By the way, if God wanted to, He could have delivered the preserved religious books to everyone, to every person in every part of the world, at every stage of history. But this was not what people deserved, so God's divine plan was written in such a way that people were separated from the books. Just as some prophets were martyred by unbelievers, this is the same situation. God could have protected His prophets from being killed if He wanted to, but He didn't, because the divine plan, destiny, was written as it was meant to be. The perfect divine plan for us to face ourselves, for us to get what we deserve, is working.
 
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