Thank you for responding. I did, however, specify a room temperature reaction. As Geni pointed out last post, the esterification reaction is definitely not a room temperature reaction. Esterification reactions in the laboratory require acid halides, dehydrating agents to remove the water molecule formed during condensation, and anhydrous solvents. You have aqueous ethanol, esterification would not occur in this medium. Please try again.
Derived Avogadros Equation for:
- Thread starter Dr. A Sheikh
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Thank you for responding. I did, however, specify a room temperature reaction. As Geni pointed out last post, the esterification reaction is definitely not a room temperature reaction. Esterification reactions in the laboratory require acid halides, dehydrating agents to remove the water molecule formed during condensation, and anhydrous solvents. You have aqueous ethanol, esterification would not occur in this medium. Please try again.
Dr. A Sheikh
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in your first post, your point was there is no compound that reacts with ethyl alcohol then you said there is no compound that react with alcohol at room temperature. first decide your question. I have given you example.
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
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But it's irrelevant.
~~ Paul
~~ Paul
I would certainly not have said that there was no compound that reacts with ethyl alcohol. I can think of dozens, e.g. acids, acid halides, alkali metals, oxygen, ketones. When you originally answered, you in fact quoted my question, i.e.
A room temperature reaction was therefore always a specification. Your example is quite inadequate. Care to try again with the specified question?
I would further like to know how many grams of belladonna there are in a volume of 30C belladonna, 10-60 grams?
Dr. A Sheikh
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the answer of the question lies in asking a question. how many chemicals a belladonna plant have?
Evasion noted.
I have no idea how many chemicals one can derive from a belladonna plant; nor, I think, do you.
Peter@Beoworld
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I have been reading the Homeopath debate for some time. As a GP, I did once think of dabbling into homeopathic learning. It seemed to me that a product with next to nothing in it would probably be better than some of the toxins that we throw at our patients with little expectation that they will work but relying on the placebo effect. However I am pleased to say that I did not and merely attempted to reduce my prescribing by keeping my patients informed of what I felt were medicines worth taking by reason of evidence based medicine and which were clearly snake oil. This has served me well as well as my prescribing figures and, I believe, my patients.
The on going discussion about belladonna is of course ridiculous! If you are diluting the original solution in the way described, it makes no difference how many chemicals are in belladonna, whether it be 1 or 1,000,000. Each is going to be diluted in the same way. Just treat them all individually rather than pretending that the presence of one is going to have any effect on the others after the initial adding of the solvent. And any compound formed at the adding of the solvent can merely be treated in exactly the same way. The only molecules you have to worry about are the impurities in the solvent which will not be diluted as you are using the same solvent all the time! I find it very disturbing that a 'Dr' is unable to grasp basic mathematics that I would expect my eight year old daughter to understand.
With regard to snake oil, I confess to still prescribing the odd 'cough bottle' - very difficult to wean some people off them! I do tell them dark chocolate is better though and have had a few converts!
The on going discussion about belladonna is of course ridiculous! If you are diluting the original solution in the way described, it makes no difference how many chemicals are in belladonna, whether it be 1 or 1,000,000. Each is going to be diluted in the same way. Just treat them all individually rather than pretending that the presence of one is going to have any effect on the others after the initial adding of the solvent. And any compound formed at the adding of the solvent can merely be treated in exactly the same way. The only molecules you have to worry about are the impurities in the solvent which will not be diluted as you are using the same solvent all the time! I find it very disturbing that a 'Dr' is unable to grasp basic mathematics that I would expect my eight year old daughter to understand.
With regard to snake oil, I confess to still prescribing the odd 'cough bottle' - very difficult to wean some people off them! I do tell them dark chocolate is better though and have had a few converts!
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
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Will you be my doctor?Peter said:
Let's say 1,000. How much of each of them remains in a 30C dilution?Sheikh said:
~~ Paul
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
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Will you be my doctor?Peter said:
Let's say 1,000. How much of each of them remains in a 30C dilution?Sheikh said:
~~ Paul
Peter@Beoworld
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Unfortunately, chocolate is not available on prescription. Quite a failing in some ways as I am sure it would do very well in trials! Bit difficult to do a double blind though! My father, a surgeon, regarded chocolate as a fruit, and insisted on keeping up his 5 pieces a day!
Rolfe
Adult human female
Why am I reading this? It's worse than watching a car smash.
Sheikh seems to have no concept whatsoever of what could possibly be contained within a homoeopathic mother tincture.
Sheikh, please tell us.
Sheikh seems to have no concept whatsoever of what could possibly be contained within a homoeopathic mother tincture.
Sheikh, please tell us.
- How many grammes of belladonna do you use to prepare a belladonna mother tincture?
- What volume of solvent is this dissolved in?
Rolfe
Adult human female
I think Sheikh believes that you can run the calculation once for every different compound in the preparation, thus multiplying the available material many-fold. I think he also believes that you get to run the calculation once more for every derivative compound you can think of or imagine. Thus, he believes you can never run out of solvent.
To try to show him how wrong he is, people are trying to explain that you can only have so many atoms in a given volume of material, and even if we allow that those atoms may dissociate completely, and we allow the largest possible number of atoms and a whole litre of mother tincture to start with, even then you are running out of atoms by the time you get to 13C. Because you can only use each atom once, irrespective of what compound it is involved in, and you can only pack so many atoms into a litre, even if it is a litre of liquid hydrogen.
Actually, homoeopaths usually start with about 5ml of mother tincture containing significantly less than a gramme of solvent, so you see you actually end up running out earlier than the caculations suggest, not later. Also, if you then factor in that a single dose of the final potency is only going to be a couple of drops, you see where we're going here....
Of course, if he would only concentrate on a mineral remedy, like the sodium sulphate that was mentioned before, and agree a volume for the mother tincture and a weight of sodium sulphate that was dissolved in it, we could get there in no time. However, I think he has already realised that his not-so-clever get-out-of-jail card doesn't work when you know the chemical nature of what you dissolved, so he's trying to fudge it by insisting on talking about a whole plant concoction.
Anyway, if we have to talk about belladonna,
- How many grammes of belladonna do you use to prepare a belladonna mother tincture?
- What volume of solvent is this dissolved in?
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Dr. A Sheikh
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That is also my point, when you don't know the idea that when you take 1ml of belladonna extract and put it in 99ml of solvent (c2h5oh +h2o) and then you vigorously shake it and then put the bottle for a month or so some time at certain degree then how can you ensure that chemical changes have not been occured.
please try to understand it that you have no idea about actual preparation of homeo MT's and Potencies. You are talking on the gen information which are written in some books or available at net.
When you will apply for the WHCC prize money you will fail at very first step. I am giving you click here to study preparation of MT and Potencies.
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PixyMisa
Persnickety Insect
So what you are saying is that you have absolutely no idea what you are giving your patients?
Do you not see a problem with that?
Art Vandelay
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There are more than one mole of electrons in a gram.
I think that, given your inability to frame your arguments in proper English, you can hardly consider the fact that no one has been able to provide a counterargument that you consider adequate as determinative of anything.
6.02 x 10^23 is a number. It doesn't have a unit, although you can add one. If I were to say that there are twelve units in a dozen, would it be inaccurate to call twelve a number?
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Sheikh, it doesn't matter. There can only be a finite number of atoms in a finite mass of belladonna. Sooner or later you will run out.
Yes, but not because we don't understand the issues or because homoeopathy works. If we apply, we will fail because MAS's challenge is a fraud. His rules allow him to simply decide that an application has failed without any reference to whether or not it is correct.
Pidge
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6.02 x 10^23 is a number, but a special one called Avagadro's number.
However, 6.02 x 10^23 mol-1 referred to as Avagadro's constant.
The distinction is subtle, but you should use Avagadro's constant in equations in which all of the measurements or variables have units, if you want to have a meaningful result. (e.g. x (in grams) of substance, which has a molar weight of y (in grams/mol), will contain x/y*A molecules)
e.g. "c" (approximately 3x10^9 m.s-1) is a constant. Without the unit, "c" becomes a bit meaningless.
I think there are a few physical constants that are unit-less, but I can't recall them right now.
But Wikipedia comes to the rescue. Note - Avagadro's number is not listed there...
H'ethetheth
fishy rocket scientist
