Deeper than primes - Continuation

[doronshadmi]

There is no evidence that there is a single inner non-temporal 'self'. Therefore, you can't get in touch with this.

Evidence is achieved only by actually practicing TM, which enables you to know directly the source of all possible expressions (abstract or physical) which is not in itself restricted to these expressions (it transcends them and therefore it is the calm unbounded state of pure creativity).

There is no reason why calmness should be more creative / better than the opposite. Can you suggest one?

Exactly as no collection of lower spaces or sub-spaces completely covers a given (mathematical or physical) space > 0, no collection of expressions completely expresses the calm unbounded state of pure creativity.


The calm state is the non restricted state of creativity, where the active state is a collection of restricted expressions of the non restricted state of creativity.

The brain is plastic. It initially forms in response to stimuli (external) and retains plasticity (although seemingly less) through lifetime. With no external stimuli there would be no thought. Now that's pretty 'calm' - but I'm not sure desirable.

Unity is the common source of any ploychotomy, where internal\external
calmness\activity obvective\subjective NOthing\YESthing etc. are all derived from Unity.

Calmness is an emotional state in response to external triggers (neurohormones).

No, calmness is the unbounded source of any possible abstract or physical activity, whether it is expressed as emotion, reasoning, intuition, senses, etc.

The ability, and desire, to spend time alone with one's inner thoughts would appear to be a factor of personality (significantly genetic in cause). My own personality is already highly introverted. I'm not sure meditating is called for.

TM is not restricted to inner thoughts, but it is a particle that enables one's awareness to be opened to the unbounded calm source of any possible abstract or physical activity.

 

[doronshadmi]

Perhaps you are talking about trying to reach a state in which the mind no longer chatters through language?

This state is the unbounded source of any possible communication among expressions, which enables harmony among them, and this is exactly the fulfillment of language, whether it is manifested as verbal_symbolic, visual_spatial etc.

Since language is the symbolic way in which we both 'know' our thoughts, and consciously appear to formulate them (although thought does arise prior to the conscious awareness of them as you suggest).

Your current notion of language is restricted only to its verbal_symbolic aspect.

Thought without language may be freer of certain biases, perhaps, without language. If we look across languages, they do not share ALL of the same biases (gendered pronouns for example). However, they do share SOME of the same biases (past / future tenses / counting and so forth). And it is these shared biases that I'd suggest are inherent in the way we frame the world even without shared language.

Please reconsider your current notion about language, because it is narrow.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

The results of the experiment are found in #421 #422.

No they're not. What results did you get?

 

[doronshadmi]

No they're not. What results did you get?

Yes they are. What notions did you get?

 

[keyfeatures]

There are a lot of TM practitioners in the world, and no evidence that it increases creativity or ingenuity. If it were really effective would we not be able to see some real differences between those who practice TM and those who don't? Russell Brand still seems to be as much of a narcissistic idiot as ever. And the Beatles didn't appear to improve musically, or otherwise, as a result of embracing it.

Is it not just a form of Orientalism / mysticism. Presumably good for relaxation? I presume you practice TM Doron? What does it enable you to do / see that you would not otherwise do / see? Surely as a person can only really know / experience the state of their own mind, having an individual and positive sensation when meditating does not really mean others will have the same experience?

Perhaps my definition of language is narrow - it is the conventional one. Perhaps my definition of calmness is also narrow - again, it is the conventional/dictionary one. We can only attach to words meanings that we have a direct sense of. So if you are describing something you believe you have direct sense of (that others don't) then it's no surprise your meaning does not translate. Perhaps you need to use different (new) words?

 

[Little 10 Toes]

No they're not. What results did you get?

Yes they are. What notions did you get?

Then please describe in detail what you have.

 

[jsfisher]

There are a lot of TM practitioners in the world, and no evidence that it increases creativity or ingenuity. If it were really effective would we not be able to see some real differences between those who practice TM and those who don't? Russell Brand still seems to be as much of a narcissistic idiot as ever. And the Beatles didn't appear to improve musically, or otherwise, as a result of embracing it.

You may find this thread of interest.

 

[keyfeatures]

You may find this thread of interest.

NOt really. Nutty.

 

[realpaladin]

I am just going to sit back and enjoy watching this new slant on 'deeper than primes'.

 

[jsfisher]

I am just going to sit back and enjoy watching this new slant on 'deeper than primes'.

The cardinality of TM (notated by ;;|<TM>|;; ) is only a few posts away, I predict.

ETA: Oh! Is that the local or non-local TM under discussion?

 

[doronshadmi]

There are a lot of TM practitioners in the world, and no evidence that it increases creativity or ingenuity. If it were really effective would we not be able to see some real differences between those who practice TM and those who don't?

You are wrong, for example: http://www.tm.org/research-on-meditation.

Russell Brand still seems to be as much of a narcissistic idiot as ever. And the Beatles didn't appear to improve musically, or otherwise, as a result of embracing it.

1) Every person is developed from his\her current stage of awareness by his\her rate, during daily TM practice.

2) There are people that do not practice TM but they are at higher stage of awareness w.r.t people that practicing TM for many years.

3) If the people that do not practice TM (but they are at higher stage of awareness w.r.t people that practicing TM for many years) start to practice TM, they increase their development rate.

I presume you practice TM Doron?

Yes.

What does it enable you to do / see that you would not otherwise do / see?

To naturally be aware of the source of any mental activity, which is not in itself a thought.

Surely as a person can only really know / experience the state of their own mind, having an individual and positive sensation when meditating does not really mean others will have the same experience?

Being directly aware of the source of thoughts is an objective state of mind, which enables to develop the best harmony among expressed thoughts, where thoughts are naturally subjective.

Perhaps my definition of language is narrow - it is the conventional one. Perhaps my definition of calmness is also narrow - again, it is the conventional/dictionary one. We can only attach to words meanings that we have a direct sense of.

Meaning has nothing to do with TM practice, exactly because by being focused at the meaning of a given thought you are stuck at the level of thoughts, as explained at http://www.youtube.com/user/meditationchannel?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/54/_0rbfSaRwCU .

So if you are describing something you believe

Belief has nothing to do with TM practice, as explained at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYFOECodaKo&blend=21&lr=1&ob=5 .

you have direct sense of (that others don't) then it's no surprise your meaning does not translate. Perhaps you need to use different (new) words?

Perhaps you actually have to practice TM in order to really aware of what I am talking about.

 

[punshhh]

I am just going to sit back and enjoy watching this new slant on 'deeper than primes'.

What lead you to the mystical schools you mention? or what lead you away from them?

 

[dafydd]

What lead you to the mystical schools you mention? or what lead you away from them?

Reality, I would guess.

 

[doronshadmi]

No they're not. What results did you get?

Please read #421 #422, it is all there.

 

[doronshadmi]

What lead you to the mystical schools you mention? or what lead you away from them?

punshhh there is nothing mystical in TM or Organic Mathematics.

 

[keyfeatures]

Perhaps you actually have to practice TM in order to really aware of what I am talking about.

Perhaps. That would appear to be the case with many things. I've never tried LSD either so haven't had a full on synesthesia experience. Nor have I been a tree. TM is a local practice. Which would appear to contradict with the non-local connecting with all things / states.

Maybe some people can only approach the non-local via the local...There's usually a pretty local collection tray involved anyhow. The many-one connection only applying when it suits.

 

[keyfeatures]

punshhh there is nothing mystical in TM or Organic Mathematics.

As can be observed by the cost of the courses...

 

[doronshadmi]

NOt really. Nutty.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8099929&postcount=243

 

[doronshadmi]

TM is a local practice.

TM also enables to transcendent the local. You can't be aware of it unless you actually doing it.

 

[keyfeatures]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8099929&postcount=243

I agree. I don't much believe in time beyond subjectivity. But we can't escape the illusion through TM.

Current mainstream physics presents its own creation myth of something from nothing. Yet singularities and imaginary timelines are the ludicrous game moves of subjective beings.

Unus - one
Versom - something rolled, rotated, changed.

In my model, we observe from our subjective position in the zoetrope. The one (universe) both bounded yet infinite. All 'moments' returning infinitely. From outside space-time (there is no outside) an unchanged rock, from in it a never ending spin cycle. No beginning and no end. It's a placeholder for now anyway. No TM required. For improved adaptation I magpie from the greater expressed thinking of others.