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death penalty please

Nie Trink Wasser

Graduate Poster
N
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Messages
1,317
deathpenaltygraph2.jpg
 
If the DP is so great wouldnt Texas be the safest place in the States? They fry people all the time, have pretty liberal gun laws.

Do they have the lowest per capita murder rate??
 
Fewer *murders*? Or are criminals just getting better at concealing all traces of their work? Hmmmmm?
;)
 
What's the source of the graph, out of curiosity?

(yes, I realize it says Bureau of Criminal Justice, but I'm assuming that's the source of the data, not the graph. It would be interesting to understand the criterion involved.)
 
1935 executions 200
murders 140

1960 executions 50
murders 75

yeah, that's some pretty compelling evidence in favor of the death penalty you have there
.
the rise and fall of the murder rate really doesn't seem to be linked to the death penalty. (as pretty much every study has ever shown)
 
THe rise in Hip Hop has caused a decline in muders. HOOORAY!
 
Tmy said:
THe rise in Hip Hop has caused a decline in muders. HOOORAY!
Click to expand...

One could as well argue that the rise in abortions 18 years ago caused a decline in murders today, although I won't.

Correlation does not imply causation.
 
From 1935 to 1960 the execution rate went down and the murder rate went down with it, so it would seem there are other factors at play here. Not surprising; that's the case with almost any social study.

How's this for a reason to support the death penalty? Whenever a guy comes up to me on the street and asks me for a dollar, I refuse. So why should I give him money (in the form of food, clothing and shelter for life) if he kills someone for that dollar? I wouldn't give him money to keep him alive even when he had otherwise done me no harm. So why should I give him money when he's done grievous harm?
 
jj said:
One could as well argue that the rise in abortions 18 years ago caused a decline in murders today, although I won't.

Correlation does not imply causation.
Click to expand...

At least that has a mechanism. I was also thinking about the rise of legalized gambling or maybe the war on drugs or even the advent of the personal home computer as reasons for the drop.
 
Tmy said:
If the DP is so great wouldnt Texas be the safest place in the States? They fry people all the time, have pretty liberal gun laws.

Do they have the lowest per capita murder rate??
Click to expand...
A lot of countries with no death penalty whatsoever have lower murder rates than the US - most of them, in fact.

Originally posted by BPSCG
How's this for a reason to support the death penalty? Whenever a guy comes up to me on the street and asks me for a dollar, I refuse. So why should I give him money (in the form of food, clothing and shelter for life) if he kills someone for that dollar? I wouldn't give him money to keep him alive even when he had otherwise done me no harm. So why should I give him money when he's done grievous harm?
Click to expand...
Maybe because the death penalty is more expensive than life in jail? Face it, you're going to finance his punishment anyhow ... :)
 
Well, if you pronounce death penalty for unpaid traffic tickets, that might actually reduce unpaid traffic tickets...

So what ?

You just don't execute people. Even if you think they deserve it.

We're not in middle age anymore.

Elio.
 
Tmy said:
If the DP is so great wouldnt Texas be the safest place in the States? They fry people all the time, have pretty liberal gun laws.

Do they have the lowest per capita murder rate??
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. The logical comparison would be between Texas with, and Texas without, the death penalty.
 
People; the graph shows no correlation at all; murders seem to follow executions until 1950 or so, and then suddenly the correlation becomes negative??

Try comparing it to a graph of the DJIA; it's a much better fit.


http://www.analyzeindices.com/dowhistory/

Edited: changed this to a link; I'm not sure what the forum policy is on image linking.
 
BTW Nie Trink Wasser,

You know that anyone who took the "socialist" part of National Socialist German Workers Party seriously, typically got into hot water?

I'm just trying to understand the point of your first sig.
 
Elio said:
Well, if you pronounce death penalty for unpaid traffic tickets, that might actually reduce unpaid traffic tickets...

So what ?

You just don't execute people. Even if you think they deserve it.

We're not in middle age anymore.

Elio.
Click to expand...

Spoken like someone living in a (presumably) virtually crime-free society.
 
LucyR said:
Doesn't matter. The logical comparison would be between Texas with, and Texas without, the death penalty.
Click to expand...

When hasnt Texas had the DP?? You're gonna compare 1950's Texas wh todays??

I think its better to compare 2 states sharing the same socio-economic timeperiod. That balances the other variables that effect the muder rate.
 
Tony,

Well, we still wear clothes. Like in middle ages... :)

However I think there are a few things we should definitely abandon.

Like executing people, with whatever methods you may think of.

Seems like that restriction of liberty as a punishment is a good compromise...

Elio.
 
Tmy said:
When hasnt Texas had the DP?? You're gonna compare 1950's Texas wh todays??

I think its better to compare 2 states sharing the same socio-economic timeperiod. That balances the other variables that effect the muder rate.
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is your rhetorical question "If the DP is so great wouldnt Texas be the safest place in the States?" is illogical.
The DP may be great, Texas may still have the highest level of violent crime. No contradiction.
 
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